My grandfather is having his birthday party at my uncle's house.  My entire family on that side will be there and I was looking forward to going.  At first he said he wanted me to go.  So I called my uncle and told him I was coming on Tuesday.

I got a call back today and he said that I wasn't welcome as Paul.  If I wanted to come as [female name], they person 'they' (my family) knows and loves then I was welcome.   First off my family never bothered to get to know me before.  If they did they would have seen how miserable I was.  Second if they loved me at all they would at least try to see me as I am now.  Third, I couldn't come as [female name] even if I wanted too.  I've changed entirely too much in the past year on hormones.   

I asked my uncle outright if I was now orphaned and officially out of the family.  He said that as long as I don't allow my Mother to see her grandchild and remained Paul than I was.  My Mother can see her grandchildren whenever she wants to.  Provided she acts respectful which she refuses to do.   Then he hung up on me. 

So I called my grandfather and he said he wasn't comfortable calling me Paul.  That what I did wasn't necessary and it wasn't saving my life.  I told him he wasn't in my shoes so how did he know.  In fact it did save my life, hugely big time.  That time in the loony bin wasn't for ->-bleeped-<-s and giggles.  No matter he just refused to listen.     

Overall my life is so much better now.  Before I rarely left the house and when I did the weight of the pain was so much.  It literally weighed me down.  Now I'm going out and meeting people and writing and pursuing hobbies and being a better parent and a better partner.  They just don't care.  I don't even get the chance to show them because they refuse to see me. 

It just hurts so so much that I am so rejected by those who should be happy that I am happy.  Instead they tell me that if I am not exactly how they want me to be, then they don't want anything to do with me.  They ask the complete impossible and if I don't conform than it's just not good enough for them. 

I'm in the same boat, Paul. My parents tolerate me now, but they refuse to call me Sebastien, use only female pronouns, and still hold out hope I'll choose to return to the way I was. I love that you say you've been on T a year and couldn't go back if you wanted to--- obviously! Of course, we're the only ones who see this. My mother somehow believes I could be a perfectly respectable girl if I'd just go off T. I often wonder how well-respected as a woman she thinks I'd be with a baritone voice.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this ->-bleeped-<-. My grandmother is in long-term care right now, and when I brought up the possibility of going to see her, my mother said I'd just upset her. I told her I don't care, because she's my grandmother. But it's been 2 years since I've seen her, mostly because of other people in the family thwarting my efforts.

This is the bull->-bleeped-<- thing about being trans... other people. They forget so easily how miserable we were before, and maybe your family didn't notice as much for one reason or another, but my mother in particular knows I was hospitalized on suicide watch only 6 months before I transitioned. They ignore the signs, and when you find a solution, they decide that it's actually the antithesis of one. It's as if, in the absence of your misery over dysphoria, they have to make you miserable about whatever else they can.

Keep your head up, Paul... there are probably more of us out there than we think who are going through this. It's bull, but good on you for standing up for yourself. And if you ever need to talk, my yahoo im is on my profile.

SD

I know that not having people on the outside can hurt an awful lot.
People try to shut it out, cover it up like it was some kind of stigma. But I try to remember that they're scared about losing a person they knew. I lot of people I know describe it as if i've "killed" my female self. A lot of people see it that way. They might come around, they might not. When I decided to come out, I told myself that I was the important one, and my happiness was important. So is yours. I know that saying we can be your family only helps a little, since we can't possibly measure up to a real one. But we're all here 'cause we're in the same boat, and because we care.
You're going out, meeting people, changing your life for the better. And if your family won't say it, then we will.
We're proud of you, Paul.
We're proud that you had the guts to change instead of hiding it like an embarrassed child, and is now getting on with your life like you said you would. The important thing is that you know that what you've done is right, that what you have done has saved you, and even though not everyone sees it now, or ever will, I trust that you made the right decision.

I hope I at least made some sense. It's cool to be mad, tired, frustrated ect. That's what we're here for   

Wow, who's your uncle kidding?  I've seen your videos and pictures you've posted from time to time, how would you manage being (female name) anyways?  You really look and sound like a completely different person.  That's some epic denial he's sporting.

Seriously though, I'm truly sorry they're still not budging on this.   Do you think homophobia's a part of it too?  Do you think they'd be the same if you weren't partnered to another man?  I see that a lot.  I'm not sure if your family is religious or not, but sometimes the religious types seem to 'understand' (although not really) transsexuals better if, once transitioned, we settle into 'traditional family' roles.  Do they think you're somehow corrupting their kids with two dads?  If so, that's ridiculous, of course, any kid should be so lucky to have two caring parents who've been through an experience like yours and understand the importance of unconditional love and acceptance in raising them. 

My mother's very conservative and religious family is like that.  They don't know about me yet, and none of them have seen me since last year.  I'm only 3 months on T, but I've changed enough that even the most self-involved among them would notice the difference.  I keep thinking that I'm going to run into one of them in this city somewhere (big family, I'm one of 16 grandchildren), and it's going to start a huge feud where my mother isn't welcome to their events either.  I feel guilty that she could be excluded because of me, which is why I've not gone to any gatherings since last summer.  I'm lucky in that my mother is fairly supportive, and while I miss some of my cousins a lot, I'd be a lot more upset on her behalf, she's very close to her mother, who will probably shut her out completely over this.  It hurts a lot to know I'll probably never see any of them again, and even more so that they'll probably blame her for 'how I turned out', so I can sort of empathize a bit.

It sucks that your family seems to be taking your mom's side in making you look like the bad guy.  It's sad that they won't do some research on the subject, find first-hand accounts of other trans experiences in an attempt to understand it better.  It's easier just to judge and cast you out.  What you did and are still doing is NOT easy, you took the harder road of risking so much to be who you really are and a better you.  Be proud of that, even if they're not because they're ignorant.  You never know though, there may be people in your family who would try to keep an open mind, and maybe your uncle's just trying to make sure you never get a chance to show them how much better off you are.  Any chance of contacting other family members individually?  I'm considering talking to my favorite cousin to see if I even have one ally in the pit of vipers.

Wow Flick, wow.  Thank you for that.  I made the only decision really.  Before I felt like I was walking around completely out of touch.  It's very hard to be something you are not.  Now I feel so much better about myself and my place in the world.

Thank you Sebastien.  Yes that is exactly it.  They refuse to admit I was miserable before.  Even though it was extremely clear and they commented on it all the time.  I tried for years and years to be who they wanted me to me.  Doing that made me very unhappy.  Eventually I realized I can't live for them.  This is my only chance at life and I need to do what is right for me.  This is right for me.  Absolutely this is right for me. 

It all seems so obvious to me.  I have a hard time explaining it because to me it was the only logical step to take.

Pit of vipers is an excellent way to put it, Bahzi.  They keep on saying how much they 'love' me.  The way their preconceived notions have me that is.  They want nothing to do with my the way I actually am. 

They refuse to see me as male in the least, so the two Dad thing doesn't even occur to them.  Mom is glad I'm NOT with a woman because from her POV that would be a lesbian relationship. 

Thank you for the compliment.  My uncle actually hasn't seen me in more than a year so he doesn't know how much I've changed.  Since he isn't seeing me I guess it's going to stay that way. I feel completely male so it's hard to understand people who just refuse to see.  Yeah my family is really big too.  I'm sorry your family is also causing drama.  It's just all so pointless because we just want to be who we are.  It doesn't hurt anyone and it's not contagious.  It just makes us happier and why are people so against that?

Dang, I'm really sorry you've got to deal with this... But I understand what you're talking about. My mom tells me she "loves" me also all the time, which is so untrue because she only loves her warped sense of who she wants me to be. It's really awful when she says that, and I'm sure you feel the same... It's like they're totally okay with blocking out who you are and replacing it with their own fallacy. It makes you feel like you really don't exist to them. Whenever I have to go over to my mom's that's how I feel, like I'm invisible and all she's seeing is a figment of her imagination. We've been in public before where people have "mistaken" me for a guy and she still tells me I look nothing like one, which shows just how blind she is... People will go great lengths to deceive themselves.

As for the whole thing with them being happier that you are with a male in your relationship, I got that same response from my mom's father (who, ironically, is actually supportive of me, although I don't think he fully understood what I am planning on doing as far as HRT). He had a "talk" with me and told me that I could not be gay because God would hate me. So I asked him what that would mean if I transitioned, should I be with a guy or girl? And he told me I'd have to be with a guy! So I'd have to be gay to not be gay? I thought his reasoning was absolutely ridiculous... I don't know where these people come up with this stuff!

Anyways, you know in your heart transition was right for you. No one else can tell you what you feel, no one can make such an important decision but you. I'm glad that you made the right choice, even if your family isn't. Don't give up, Paul!

Most of the people I know who 'lost' their family are probably better off for it in the long run.  Really, every person who is trying to pretend you don't exist is one less person you have to do anything for.

Sorry to hear you are getting such a hard time from your family. 

If they tell you that they love you but it has conditions attached then it is not really worth a lot.  Unconditional love would mean they supported you even if they couldn't understand why you are doing this. 
There are some relatives you are better off not seeing, just maybe a Christmas card if they are lucky.

You deserve a better life than having to live the way someone else decrees. That's known as slavery to be honest.

Have a great life, Karen.

Quote from: Sebastien on July 08, 2011, 04:40:15 PM
I often wonder how well-respected as a woman she thinks I'd be with a baritone voice.

Not to derail, but...

There are many male-to-female transsexuals here who have to make do with a baritone voice.

Quote from: tekla on July 09, 2011, 03:13:12 AM
Most of the people I know who 'lost' their family are probably better off for it in the long run.  Really, every person who is trying to pretend you don't exist is one less person you have to do anything for.

I agree.  I would have no qualms about losing my family if they reacted this way.  If people want to pretend that I don't exist, I will gladly make them disappear from my life.

My extended family won't be a problem, because they either know/suspect or they are mature enough to handle these types of issues.  It's my immediate family I'm concerned about.

If they are not willing to be a part of the solution, then they have chosen to be part of the problem, regardless of the effect on you.
If my whole family were neo-nazis and I decided to convert to Judaism I certainly wouldn't care what they thought. Not a lot of difference really.

Karen

It sucks, Paul.  Let them go.  Live your life with your kids and your partner and be true to yourself.  They may come around someday; they may not.  As hard as it is, it is NOT your problem.  It is theirs.

I am not the same person I used to be.  While yes some things are still the same, I have changed a LOT.  I see glimpses of who I  might have been had I been born cisgendered.  I would have been different.

Sometimes I wish I could just tell people that she is dead, but Hi, I'm Jay, nice to meet you.  If only that would work, LOL.

Hang in there.  Maybe someday your family will realize that having Paul as a son (nephew, grandson) is better than having a dead (for real) daughter.

Jay

The hurt that this type of rejection - by your "own flesh and blood" can be some of the worst there is in life. Family is supposed to be a loving, supporting group of people who care about one another and don't want to hurt one another. However, that's a bit of a fantasy really. Every family has their problems and drama and gossip and all sorts of other emotionally-driven things. And some people, for whatever reason will not accept certain things. It's like the people who have uber religious families where their family members will tell them they're going to hell or going against god or whatever else because their minds are so molded to their own personal experiences and beliefs they can't accept what makes someone else happy. You can't change other people. You can change yourself. And YOU have changed yourself and changed the path your life was on and moved away from the negative people in your life - those family members. Personally I think it's a very sad thing when family acts like that. In my own family there were decades where my grandmother refused to speak to her own son (my dad). Years later it came to light that she'd been dealing with mental problems her whole life. I think a lot of times the people acting that way DO have problems, but they make the other people feel terrible like it's them with the problem. And when family members ban together on something and give you ultimatums such as "we'll love you again when you stop being so foolish with this nonsense" that's just straight up bull->-bleeped-<-. That kind of behavior, to me, is weak and the opposite of loving and caring.

Paul, you're not the one with the problem - it's your family. I think you are a loving, caring person who chose their path and is now walking it and your family may never see the light.

Quote from: Squirrel698 on July 08, 2011, 03:45:33 PM
My grandfather is having his birthday party at my uncle's house.  My entire family on that side will be there and I was looking forward to going.  At first he said he wanted me to go.  So I called my uncle and told him I was coming on Tuesday.

I got a call back today and he said that I wasn't welcome as Paul.  If I wanted to come as [female name], they person 'they' (my family) knows and loves then I was welcome.   First off my family never bothered to get to know me before.  If they did they would have seen how miserable I was.  Second if they loved me at all they would at least try to see me as I am now.  Third, I couldn't come as [female name] even if I wanted too.  I've changed entirely too much in the past year on hormones.   

I asked my uncle outright if I was now orphaned and officially out of the family.  He said that as long as I don't allow my Mother to see her grandchild and remained Paul than I was.  My Mother can see her grandchildren whenever she wants to.  Provided she acts respectful which she refuses to do.   Then he hung up on me. 

So I called my grandfather and he said he wasn't comfortable calling me Paul.  That what I did wasn't necessary and it wasn't saving my life.  I told him he wasn't in my shoes so how did he know.  In fact it did save my life, hugely big time.  That time in the loony bin wasn't for ->-bleeped-<-s and giggles.  No matter he just refused to listen.     

Overall my life is so much better now.  Before I rarely left the house and when I did the weight of the pain was so much.  It literally weighed me down.  Now I'm going out and meeting people and writing and pursuing hobbies and being a better parent and a better partner.  They just don't care.  I don't even get the chance to show them because they refuse to see me. 

It just hurts so so much that I am so rejected by those who should be happy that I am happy.  Instead they tell me that if I am not exactly how they want me to be, then they don't want anything to do with me.  They ask the complete impossible and if I don't conform than it's just not good enough for them.

Wow, sorry to hear your grandfather hasn't come around. I was really hoping the birthday card incident wasn't intentional. Have you explained to him that you look too different now and can't possibly come as <female name>? I mean what could you do to come as 'female' with the way you look now? Wear a dress? I'm sure he'd love that, your looking like a crossdressed male at his birthday. 

Quote from: Squirrel698 on July 08, 2011, 03:45:33 PM
My grandfather is having his birthday party at my uncle's house.  My entire family on that side will be there and I was looking forward to going.  At first he said he wanted me to go.  So I called my uncle and told him I was coming on Tuesday.

I got a call back today and he said that I wasn't welcome as Paul.  If I wanted to come as [female name], they person 'they' (my family) knows and loves then I was welcome.   First off my family never bothered to get to know me before.  If they did they would have seen how miserable I was.  Second if they loved me at all they would at least try to see me as I am now.  Third, I couldn't come as [female name] even if I wanted too.  I've changed entirely too much in the past year on hormones.   

I asked my uncle outright if I was now orphaned and officially out of the family.  He said that as long as I don't allow my Mother to see her grandchild and remained Paul than I was.  My Mother can see her grandchildren whenever she wants to.  Provided she acts respectful which she refuses to do.   Then he hung up on me. 

So I called my grandfather and he said he wasn't comfortable calling me Paul.  That what I did wasn't necessary and it wasn't saving my life.  I told him he wasn't in my shoes so how did he know.  In fact it did save my life, hugely big time.  That time in the loony bin wasn't for ->-bleeped-<-s and giggles.  No matter he just refused to listen.     

Overall my life is so much better now.  Before I rarely left the house and when I did the weight of the pain was so much.  It literally weighed me down.  Now I'm going out and meeting people and writing and pursuing hobbies and being a better parent and a better partner.  They just don't care.  I don't even get the chance to show them because they refuse to see me. 

It just hurts so so much that I am so rejected by those who should be happy that I am happy.  Instead they tell me that if I am not exactly how they want me to be, then they don't want anything to do with me.  They ask the complete impossible and if I don't conform than it's just not good enough for them. 

I'm so sorry that your family is still not accepting. That's just not right.

Once again I want to thank everyone for the encouragement. 

I'm sorry that I don't answer quickly.  This was hard for me to deal with and I had to take a few steps back before I formulated a reply.  However your replies are always very appreciated, each one of you.

I know that the majority consensus here is that I should walk away.  I know that might be the best and most sane option.  However part of me wonders if the attitude outside of my immediate family is merely ignorance.  I feel that while I have silently waited for them to come around, my mother has been steadily pouring poison in their ears.  Even if they don't listen, I need to know they at least heard my side.  They I am not the weird cruel freak she is making me out to be.  I was planning to tell them in person at the party but it seems I have to do a letter instead.

I posted the letter in the 'Just Us' section on here.   

Paul, sometimes living well is the best revenge.

Sometimes everyone needs time and distance to cool off and think things through.

What I'd probably do is wait until you have been on T a few more years, and if your family is still not accepting just show up to one of their events and have a great time as YOU and ignore their BS.  Then leave. 

Maybe when they realize what a cool person you are they'll come around.  Maybe seeing the grand kids happy and healthy will make them want to rekindle things.  If that is what you still want.

Sorry you are going through this.

Jay

Quote from: justmeinoz on July 09, 2011, 04:23:20 AM

There are some relatives you are better off not seeing, just maybe a Christmas card if they are lucky.

Have a great life, Karen.

I prefer to spend my time off and holidays with people who love me as much as I love them.  I would n't waste the time off with them if I were you.


I'm sorry your family is acting this way and I can only imagine your pain as I haven't hit that part of transition and came out to family. Some people just aren't capable of unconditional love and I feel sorry for people like that but it a defect in their soul that you cannot fix.  Just remember that FRIENDS are the family you CHOOSE. I wish I could give you a big hug and make you feel better but I doubt that would really help.

Your Friend,
Jessica