We seem (desperately?) proud of our fondness to play as a group. Wondering whether you think that being an androgyne comes from this playful blurring and changing of boundaries, or whether the sense of play comes from being androgyne...or whether you think the two are not linked or that even the two don't exist.

So a chicky and the egg situation

As playfulness is associated with children, I'd suggest that androgynes are or seem more playful than others based on that. So much of growing up is focused on becoming a man or a woman. And as sometimes happens with transsexuals, there is no clear way to go at a certain age for androgynes. There's no template for an androgyne to grow into. As a result, perhaps androgynes retain their child like traits more than others. So, maybe playfulness or the appearance of it comes from androgynity.

<professor hat, engage!>

Androgyne's a pretty big area, without a lot of rules to box it in. Seeing as how an androgyne basically makes up their own rules to live by (because everybody needs some direction, even if that direction is 'dash around randomly'), being one seems to require a certain amount of whimsicality in order to stay together. Highly ordered people would not take the inherent lack of order well.

That having been said, I can imagine the playfulness might lead to experimenting with the boundaries (kind of like kids do). So... basically, I don't know. One of each?

Lousy professor hat, never can finish its hypotheses... I'm going to get a refund on this thing.
Also, while I was writing, my post's been posted by someone else. Ah well... ^_^

I don't see myself as childlike whatsoever, despite being playful. I may not be growing into a male or female role, but that doesn't mean I am not mature, intelligent, and full of adult experiences and understanding.

That being said, I do think that androgynes have a more upbeat attitude in general, which can definitely be playful. It's really just a...I don't know, an "I'll never be normal anyway, so I can't take myself too seriously" attitude.

Oh yeah. I definitely don't see myself as abnormal or less than someone who is binary. I guess I just mean, that because I am different from what most people can understand there is just no point in bothering to try to impress anyone.

When I was i my teens, I tried very hard to present myself as a heterosexual, cisgender and totally binary girl. And because I pulled it off, I felt this need to continue being so serious because I received rewards for it. I felt I had too much to lose because I had invested so much in this image.

This happened even as FTM...the more manly and binary I behaved, the quicker I got access to testosterone, the quicker that people in my support system came around to see me as someone worthy of transition. I had invested so much in having others dictate my 'worthiness' to access these things that I was afraid to let go and just be happy as a transitioning androgyne.

So for me, it's just really liberating to think that actually, others don't decide how worthy I am of anything. It's a new thing in my case. There's always going to be people who will judge me for things, whether it's my sexual preference (female-bodied person liking women), my transitioning body, or my refusal to categorize myself in the binary. People always generalize and find reasons to hate and judge. So I may as well just let myself be who I am in all parts of my life! And not care. And be playful, allow myself to express things others might repress for the sake of their social conventions.

i'm not a playful person. usually i'm far too serious about things, so i feel lucky that i came by this forum before i got totally serious about being a man. realizing there's no need to choose one or the other was very liberating, but i'm still not more playful than any of my binary friends. most of them totally outdo me in that area

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm playful  and I'm an Androgyne.  I'm also Mature and I was forced to grow up quickly because of my medical crap.  I've always had a playful side and I've always been differently gendered I can't say I'm one because of the other but they do seem interwoven at times

I said I don't know because really, we live in a world with no wall or definitions. No two the same. Try it on and see how it fits. The I don't know option just feels right ... to ME but I don't think I'm all that playful. My sense of humour is medium at best.

Perhaps we just have nothing better to do 

It's the only thing worth doing, as it's the only real way to deeply learn.

I actually am even less playful since going andro. Most people are not attracted to genderless people it seems and thats why i dress this way.

Quote from: Forum Admin on June 30, 2011, 06:54:56 PM
As playfulness is associated with children, I'd suggest that androgynes are or seem more playful than others based on that. So much of growing up is focused on becoming a man or a woman. And as sometimes happens with transsexuals, there is no clear way to go at a certain age for androgynes. There's no template for an androgyne to grow into. As a result, perhaps androgynes retain their child like traits more than others. So, maybe playfulness or the appearance of it comes from androgynity.

^^^ Like ^^^

I don't think you have to be an androgyne to be playful but I think it helps to be playful if you're an androgyne.

Quote from: Luna! on June 30, 2011, 07:00:21 PM
Seeing as how an androgyne basically makes up their own rules to live by ...  being one seems to require a certain amount of whimsicality in order to stay together. Highly ordered people would not take the inherent lack of order well.

Nice hat! 

Finally explains why I can't ever seem to clean my room. 

Seriously, tho, I don't know that being an androgyne necessarily means one is more playful.  I do think that truly accepting the fact that there are no gender rules that apply forces one to chose how they want to proceed with their lives.  Rather than chose to worry or obsess over how to fit in, I chose the path of not taking my perceived gender role too seriously.  In fact, I embraced the playful rebel within and opted to have fun with the rules.  I mean, what good are rules if you can't bend and twist them to suit you?

Quote from: Caseyy on June 30, 2011, 10:53:22 PM
It's really just a...I don't know, an "I'll never be normal anyway, so I can't take myself too seriously" attitude.

Who would ever want to be normal?  Seems like too much work constantly evaluating everything you said, thought or did to make sure it was OK with everyone else.  Go ahead...misbehave a little...you might like it

Quote from: explorer on July 01, 2011, 04:08:56 AM
i'm not a playful person. usually i'm far too serious about things, so i feel lucky that i came by this forum before i got totally serious about being a man. realizing there's no need to choose one or the other was very liberating

Yes, dear friends, another lost soul has found their way to the light.  Let us rejoice in their timely rescue and their choice to lay down those burdens "down by the riverside".  Can I get a Hallelujah?  Can I get an Amen?  Can I get a hand getting out of this corner I painted myself in?


I tend to agree with the others who say that the two may not be related, but being playful certainly helps one deal with the ambiguities of being an androgyne.

......Laurry

Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on July 03, 2011, 09:10:49 AM
I actually am even less playful since going andro. Most people are not attracted to genderless people it seems and thats why i dress this way.

You dress 'boy' ?  Thats what you're avatar looks like but I'm not sure if thats what you mean. I agree with you that not everyone is into the andro look when picking friends or SO.

I was playful before I was an androgyne.
Since I spent most of my teen years in a closed room with a computer and lots of books, I never really developed any socialization, so I don't even know what other people are like.

I know I like to experiment and try and play, and I often break things just to put them back together in a better way (this is really fun to do with porcelain, btw)

And regarding AGity... I dunno. I feel that that's completely irrelevant.

Yesterday there was a "gay parade" kind of event, with a bunch of gays mounted in a party car dancing with stereotypical gay music. I felt really sad about the whole thing.
I don't even want to be thought as one of them. I don't want to be thought of as a woman, or as a man, or as a "steretypical gay".
So yea.

The point is that the androgyny for me, is more about running away than playing around. Or something.

Hmm,  I was expecting there to be thought a much stronger link to the two, but that could be because of the central notion that playfulness has in my system of values - I feel the majority of things I have ever been proud of or really, really enjoyed were as a result of playing around.

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 30, 2011, 06:00:32 PMWondering whether you think that being an androgyne comes from this playful blurring and changing of boundaries, or whether the sense of play comes from being androgyne...or whether you think the two are not linked or that even the two don't exist.

Yes. 

I'm a very playful, youthful type of person. I'm also androgynous to some extent. I'm friends with a lot of very silly, playful people. Yet I'm the only androgynous person I know, as near as I can tell. I don't see a link, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. 

wow, I'm useful today...

yes, you're useful, julian. i know lots of playful people myself. most of them are men, for some reason, one's even a homophobe. wonder where all the playful women and androgyne who should've been in my (real, not online) life are...

interesting to see someone thinks we don't really exist, btw

Quote from: explorer on July 09, 2011, 04:08:26 PM
yes, you're useful, julian.

haha, thanks. rereading my post, all I really said was 'eh, maybe, maybe not.' 

Quote from: Flotsam on July 11, 2011, 01:52:06 PM
They don't think unicorns exist either. Which is why we all hang out in the unicorn forest.

wondering if someone would call my bluff on that.