Bringing a gun to school and shooting another student twice in the head in a classroom is premeditated murder in my book

It's also premeditated murder (Murder 1) in the book that really matter here, the Laws of the State of California.  It's assumed that if you bring the gun you thought about it, and had plenty of time to reconsider.

Thanks, Zythyra and VM for the welcome!

Quote from: Muffin on July 12, 2011, 12:10:22 AM
Well if this is fact then why question it?

I suppose the evidence suggested to me Larry was in the early stages of figuring out who he was, and I was reflecting on the tragedy that he'll never have the chance to find out.

Quote..or both?

Well, yeah, though again, that would be according to a different definition of "transgendered." I was working from the assumption that a transgendered person is someone who identifies with a gender other than their biological gender, assigned at birth. In my experience, if a M-F transgendered person identifies as female and is attracted to men, she'd identify herself as a straight female. But I understand and respect we have different definitions of "transgendered" here.

QuoteYeah understandable, but if the facts point to Larry/Leticia being attacked for only one over the other then that is what the article should be about, if both then both.

The evidence so far suggests they overlapped considerably. Brandon McInerney was enraged that Larry was, according to the defense, flirting with him and letting it be known he found him attractive. But I think it was the fact Larry cross-dressed and wore makeup exacerbated the humiliation for McInerney, from his perspective.

QuoteI did preface this portion of my reply with something along the lines of "if you ask a million people you will get [...] but because you asked me I'll give you my opinion", and that is what you got!

Yeah, I saw that, but earlier you did chide me for my ignorance because I didn't use your definition. 

But thanks for your patience sharing your perspective. I'm still learning. I don't have any trans friends IRL -- not through choice, I've just never had that opportunity -- but I have a few online, and I'm trying to see the issues from their perspective.

Quote from: Dave Rattigan on July 12, 2011, 07:17:43 AM
Yeah, I saw that, but earlier you did chide me for my ignorance because I didn't use your definition. 

Here are terms and definitions as used at Susan's. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html

Thanks for the link, Zythyra. It's very helpful.

Quote from: Dave Rattigan on July 12, 2011, 09:49:07 AM
Thanks for the link, Zythyra. It's very helpful.

just be forewarned that there is not universal consensus on the umbrella term...if you have spent any time reading other threads here that discuss that issue, you have seen what a source of contention it is for some of us.

I think it's important to note that Larry/Leticia's gender identity and sexual orientation were, most likely. still rather fluid at his age.  If she was a young transsexual girl then her orientation ought to be described as heterosexual.  If he was just a feminine boy then he could be called gay.

I find it interesting that zie used flirting and sexual strategies to defend hirself against hir bullies.  Zie turned their homo/transphobia against them, so to speak, the tragic results notwithstanding.

Thanks for stopping in, Mr Rattigan.  You are the first journalist to openly come here and ask questions in the 5½ years I've been a member here.  I appreciate your willingness to learn.  The terms and definitions that are posted here are the generally accepted ones.  There is a small minority of transsexual women who reject these definitions but about 90% of the community (as noted in the NCTE's report, Injustice at Every Turn http://endtransdiscrimination.org/report.html ) accept it as it is defined here.

Please take advantage of our wiki if you would like to get more factual versus opinionated answers to your questions.

Quote from: Emelye on July 12, 2011, 01:44:35 PM
but about 90% of the community (as noted in the NCTE's report, Injustice at Every Turn http://endtransdiscrimination.org/report.html ) accept it as it is defined here.

oh the irony, *cough* lets not forget that 78.543% of statistics are made up on the spot. And the rest are simply inconclusive. How about 90% of people disregard words that are already defined in the standard dictionaries that are centuries old? yeah lols indeedy!

Quote from: Muffin on July 12, 2011, 10:01:50 PM
oh the irony, *cough* lets not forget that 78.543% of statistics are made up on the spot. And the rest are simply inconclusive. How about 90% of people disregard words that are already defined in the standard dictionaries that are centuries old? yeah lols indeedy!

Muffin, if you have a problem with the stats from the study referenced please show us what you don't like and why.  The study has  number of pages that describe its methodology.  I've provided the link so, by all means, read that and then tell us what you disagree with.  Baseless ridicule, however, is not a valid argument.  One might even interpret your mocking as a personal attack.

Quote from: Emelye on July 13, 2011, 10:00:08 AM
Muffin, if you have a problem with the stats from the study referenced please show us what you don't like and why.  The study has  number of pages that describe its methodology.  I've provided the link so, by all means, read that and then tell us what you disagree with.  Baseless ridicule, however, is not a valid argument.  One might even interpret your mocking as a personal attack.

I *HAVE* skimmed the full report and the CLOSEST I see anything coming to your claim of 90% is the 4th question where respondents were asked whether they identify with the term 'transgendered.'  Only if you add the SOMEWHAT responses do you get to 90%.  And there were at least a few hundred respondents who did NOT even respond to that question. 

In fact, the authors even note that:

QuoteWhile we did our best to make the sample as representative as possible of transgender and gender non-conforming people in the U.S., it is not appropriate to generalize the findings in this study to all transgender and gender non-conforming people because it not a random sample.

Going a step further, they even required as the first question:

Quote1. Do you consider yourself to be transgender/gender non-conforming in any way?

They went on to say they excluded anyone who responded NO. 

So it was a self-selected survey that even automatically excluded some of the respondents...hardly representative support for a claim that 90% of the community buys into the umbrella term. 

Thanks again, everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Also, thanks for the private messages; sorry I can't reply, as I don't have the necessary permissions.

Please keep discussion to the original topic. Arguing about Site Policy is in violation of Rule 2.

Quote
2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact susan@susans.org and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.