I heard Chris is making gay porn presenting as a male (and a top).  I'm not sure how that affects the discussion.  It's still very possible Chris identifies female and is just going through the motions for fame and/or money.

More proof that Andy Warhol was right.

Oh, that person still exists? I had never heard his (her?) name and when I looked it up I made the link with "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE !! T_T" that made the whole world laugh a while back.

Anyway, let him or her be whatever he or she wants. I never liked flashy people like that much.

Anyway, I hope (s)he doesn't give "us" too bad an image.

No-one is anyone else's official representative - as far as I'm concerned, she can be just how she wants to be, and that reflects on no-one except her.

In theory, that is. But in practice, people take a famous example of a rare phenomenon and apply it as the norm. Even I do this.

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 12, 2011, 05:37:20 AM
Why? What's wrong with flamboyant?

it can often provoke negative stereotypes which make it easier for the opposition to characterize us in ways that work to our disadvantage, either purposely or subconsciously.

Yes, that makes me a conformist.

I don't mind flamboyance that has nothing to do with gender identity, just when it contributes (however inadvertently) to the argument for inequality.

Quote from: A on July 12, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
In theory, that is. But in practice, people take a famous example of a rare phenomenon and apply it as the norm. Even I do this.

bingo.

Just because our detractors are narrow minded (or simple minded) does not require us to be so.  And no matter what you do, it's not going to win them all over.  Haters gonna hate, that's what that means.  If you to go 'A' they are going to change the goalposts to 'B' and so on.  It's not a game worth playing.

That's a huge part of what I love about SF, there are so many flameingly flauntingly flamboyant persons (in all sorts of ways and styles) that I just blend into the background.  My quasi-hippie look outfits don't draw me no attention.  I'm not flashing anything.  Hell, I've almost always got an ankle length skirt on, and leggings underneath, sweaters and scarfs (it's cold here).  Once people get used to the really weird, the more general, run-of-the-mill weird gets a lot easier to handle.  And that much weirdness gives other people more lee-way to be a bit weirder themselves.  It's fun.

Quote from: dalebert on July 12, 2011, 09:45:07 AM
I heard Chris is making gay porn presenting as a male (and a top).  I'm not sure how that affects the discussion.  It's still very possible Chris identifies female and is just going through the motions for fame and/or money.

Well, transition is expensive, if he was considering it.   I've seen some MTF's who used to do male modeling and bodybuilding, so it's possible that Chris isn't as comfortable with his body as his new occupation would make it seem.   Labels matter little when it comes to porn I think.  Buck Angel is married to a woman, and yet is a gay porn star.   Not trashing him, I think Buck's awesome and wish there was more FTM porn, I'm just saying personal politics or identity don't matter much in that industry.

Quote from: tekla on July 12, 2011, 12:31:16 PM
Just because our detractors are narrow minded (or simple minded) does not require us to be so.  And no matter what you do, it's not going to win them all over.  Haters gonna hate, that's what that means.  If you to go 'A' they are going to change the goalposts to 'B' and so on.  It's not a game worth playing.

That's a huge part of what I love about SF, there are so many flameingly flauntingly flamboyant persons (in all sorts of ways and styles) that I just blend into the background.  My quasi-hippie look outfits don't draw me no attention.  I'm not flashing anything.  Hell, I've almost always got an ankle length skirt on, and leggings underneath, sweaters and scarfs (it's cold here).  Once people get used to the really weird, the more general, run-of-the-mill weird gets a lot easier to handle.  And that much weirdness gives other people more lee-way to be a bit weirder themselves.  It's fun.

Good counter point.

Quote from: Cindy James on July 12, 2011, 04:57:52 AM
Yet again I sit in a corner. I do not know or care what a Chris Croker is. And why should I?

Cindy

And yet you took the time to post.

TBH, if he wants to be a lamppost it's his call. People get so worked up about arguing one way or the other whether he's 'really' gay or if it's all just an act...At the end of the day it all boils down to the fact that he is an attention-whore, he delights in being the centre of attention and discussion. With that said I'll now skip off and spend my time more wisely.

  I came across Chris' videos in the past.  To me, he is playing on both side of the court on the transsexual/non-transsexual issue and he's more of a RuPaul than those going full-time.  I seen this type of acting and flamboyance in Sid Vicious and Michael Jackson, even though neither has or shown very little of of transgender tendencies.  Chris is burning the candle at both ends like Sid and Michael did.  RuPaul is a true entertainer, he starts and leaves his performances in the dressing room. 
  Joelene

Honestly, Chris is extraordinarily handsome as a man too.

With Crocker's videos, I always kept up with his Youtube channel (again, I find him funny, along with quite a few other entertainers I enjoy) and I've heard his emotions and dedication to the subject, and I do believe that having a (flamboyant) female-trans-crossdresser identity was something 100% true to his heart; he lived with his Grandma and she supported him %100. However, as all human beings can do, it could have been just a phase, who knows. That's why I believe Androgynous youths (those who, like Crocker, look very attractive in both female or male form naturally) typically are most free to make their own phase and identity choices, especially early in life, and lets face it; Crocker has probably accomplished more confidence in his sense of self than most of us here.

never even heard of him/her

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 12, 2011, 10:36:02 PM
never even heard of him/her

me neither Jamie!

Hmmm

Christine Crocker comes out to play

I don't feel I'm in a position to tell them what they are or arn't.
Just because someone might be a infuriating ->-bleeped-<- dosen't mean that they suddenly arn't a transsexual as tempting as it is to distance yourself as much as possible, it's frankly extremely offensive to suggest that anyone should act a different way to "represent" transsexuals in a better light. Makes you no better than those HBS "reel" women puritans and their crap.

It suprised my friends when I got frustrated at another transwoman and I called them a "dumb bitch." Someone having GID dosen't make them innately more likable or more unlikable or make me any more likley to enjoy someones company.

Chris Crocker annoys me... but whatever he (or she) wants to be is none of my business (and I can't find myself really wanting to care).

He (or she) just annoys me So, I try not to look that direction anyway.

Whether you know who Chris Crocker is or not, you've got to admit that Chris/Christine would be pleased that their outrageous persona is being so passionately debated, as in the threads bring written here! We should invite them to respond!

My issue with Crocker is because of past disgusting slurs on women and their "loose bacon strips". Highly disrespectful and downright shameful. No matter if it's acting or not, what was said was vile. Even if it was years ago.