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Best voice training methods?

Started by LilKittyCatZoey, July 12, 2011, 10:30:39 AM

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LilKittyCatZoey

Hmmm ok how expensive are these voice people?
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 13, 2011, 09:57:49 AM
I really have to disagree. Passing is neck up - voice and face. If either is off, the chance you'll be clocked goes way way up.

i completely agree and thanks hmmm i will have to see if i can find one in my area who is worth the price
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toxicblue

Try to find that part of your voice where it goes from your normal, male sounding voice (modal voice) to that high pitched, cartooney voice (falsetto).  When you're at falsetto, try saying "ahhh" for a second at a time, slowly tightening the top part of your voice.  Next, try moving just the top part of your voice down, without bringing in the bottom part of your voice.  It will feel rather uncomfortable at first, but as you keep doing it, you should be able to hold the voice longer and longer.

Next, when you think you have a decent tone, try talking a bit with that voice.  Try to make sure that your voice doesn't get any lower than around the middle of your voice.  A good way to do it is to have it crackle; like say when you're speaking with your normal voice and you're speaking quietly and low, it will make some kind of crackling noise.  Try to keep that crackle around the middle of your voice instead of the bottom, as eventually.

And after that, record yourself talking, experiment a bit, try to remember the things you tried that you shouldn't do, and just keep working at it.  Also, a good way to practice is to call or skype a friend that knows your transitioning, and just try to speak with a female voice once you have enough confidence. 

Also, I love your avatar!  ^^
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Annah

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 09:41:32 AM
Hmmm ok how expensive are these voice people?

My voice instructor was about 80 dollars. But it wasn't face to face.
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Annah

Quote from: GinaDouglas on July 12, 2011, 11:35:07 PM
Don't worry too much about your voice.  Humans have visual primacy.  If you look like a woman, nobody will notice your voice.  I'm not saying don't work your voice, or it's not important.  I am saying, don't let it be a dealbreaker.

I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

The two most important assets to passing, in my opinion is 1. Voice 2. Hair followed by 3. Face

Voice will always be the deal breaker.

If you are borderline passing and if your voice is very feminine they will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you look like Selena Gomez and your voice sounds like Mr Bean, then they will def know. I went with a transfriend of mine to a diner last semester and she was absolutely gorgeous. You would never have known she was born physically male. However, as soon as she started to speak to the waitress, the waitress had this "OMG!" expression. I've seen it time and time again....even in trans chat sites that has the option of video chat.

If you do not want to get clocked or if getting clocked bothers you then voice is one of the most important things to change.

I know girls who don't care if they get clocked and the don't work on their voice. It's their choice.
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: toxicblue on July 13, 2011, 11:45:03 AM
Also, I love your avatar!  ^^

Awwww thanks sweetie

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 11:51:08 AM
I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

Thats true i remember last Halloween i went as a girl and most people said are you a boy or girl i think girl but i aint sure then i spoke and they said oh haha boy right so its true voice is important specially when you are like me trying to remove your past from yourself.

Thats why i started this topic i want to get my voice over and done with so i can not worry  :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Annah

right. That's what I stated.  Pitch is only one step of many but an important step nevertheless.
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jamie nicole

i still say save your money and experiment yourself.  if you still need help finding it, i'm sure there are plenty of videos on youtube.
Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 11:51:08 AM
I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

The two most important assets to passing, in my opinion is 1. Voice 2. Hair followed by 3. Face

Voice will always be the deal breaker.

that isnt entirely true and I'd have to say I disagree.  Look at Ann Curry on the Today show, she doesnt sound that much different than Jack Nicholson yet nobody doubts shes a woman.  Hair, look at Sinead O'Conner's or lack of....nobody doubts she's a woman.
To me, the most important thing in passing is your own self confidence and level of comfort in your own skin.
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LilKittyCatZoey

Girls no fighting i believe in peace so please Claws away and lets settle on the fact everyone has diffrent preferences ? Okay? hehe  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :-* :-* :-* :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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GinaDouglas

I'm not saying that you can sound like the announcer on Laugh-In and still pass.  I'm saying that, when you have the whole package right, a questionable voice is not a deal-breaker.  That is more the case, as you get older, as many women's voices get deeper with age.

It's not really about pitch though.  It's about timbre.  You don't have the right anatomy to hit a women's timbre, so nobody's voice is ever really female, only passably so.  So get over it and get used to it and do your best.

A voice coach, a speech therapist; I'm sure they can help anyone have a better voice.  Like anything else, it's a cost/benefit analysis unique to each individual.

A few other things to consider are:

Other people are more likely to give you away than when you are alone.  Annah, you're not doing your friend any favors by watching how people react to her.  They see you watching them, that makes them suspicious.

Scientific studies indicate that the most common gendering cues are:

At a distance: hip-to-waist ratio

Up close: eyebrows
It's easier to change your sex and gender in Iran, than it is in the United States.  Way easier.

Please read my novel, Dragonfly and the Pack of Three, available on Amazon - and encourage your local library to buy it too! We need realistic portrayals of trans people in literature, for all our sakes
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Annah

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 02:58:33 PM
i still say save your money and experiment yourself.  if you still need help finding it, i'm sure there are plenty of videos on youtube.
that isnt entirely true and I'd have to say I disagree.  Look at Ann Curry on the Today show, she doesnt sound that much different than Jack Nicholson yet nobody doubts shes a woman.  Hair, look at Sinead O'Conner's or lack of....nobody doubts she's a woman.
To me, the most important thing in passing is your own self confidence and level of comfort in your own skin.

Ann Curry doesnt sound like Jack Nicholson lol.  Even low pitch women still sound feminine because of their other reflections, timbre, etc etc.  I am talking about the girls who still talk just like they did prior to transition or the ones who talked "with the infeminate gay male tone."

No one doubts Sinead O Conner is a woman because she also have very feminine features and a feminine voice. Sinead also has a feminine hairline...even when she did have her hair shaven.

Also a bald woman will have her facial features accentuated because those will stand out. A genetically born male who transitions does not have those features, so yes, hair is very important. A transwoman with a high receding forehead will have an easier time getting clocked. A woman with a very masculine voice will have an easier time getting clocked.  It's not my opinion...its factual.

I have never met a transgirl who talked masculine who had a good time passing. 
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Annah

Quote from: GinaDouglas on July 13, 2011, 03:36:52 PM
A few other things to consider are:

Other people are more likely to give you away than when you are alone.  Annah, you're not doing your friend any favors by watching how people react to her.  They see you watching them, that makes them suspicious.

I didnt go out of my way to make sure people had reacted to her....you have to look at the waitress when you order your meal.


QuoteAt a distance: hip-to-waist ratio

Up close: eyebrows

I agree with this. This is way I usually tell transgirls to stay away from skin tight mini skirts.

Also up close there are many more factors that play than eyebrows...even tho eyebrows is a big part of it.
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azSam

Ooookkkkaayyyy, Why not! Here is my voice on a video recently recorded. I was talking to my cat, I didn't record it with the intention of really showing it to anybody, but it's a good demonstration of where I got my voice to. I'll see about creating an extensive writeup about the various steps to working on your voice.

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jamie nicole

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jamie nicole

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 04:22:34 PM
Ann Curry doesnt sound like Jack Nicholson lol.  Even low pitch women still sound feminine because of their other reflections, timbre, etc etc.  I am talking about the girls who still talk just like they did prior to transition or the ones who talked "with the infeminate gay male tone."

No one doubts Sinead O Conner is a woman because she also have very feminine features and a feminine voice. Sinead also has a feminine hairline...even when she did have her hair shaven.

Also a bald woman will have her facial features accentuated because those will stand out. A genetically born male who transitions does not have those features, so yes, hair is very important. A transwoman with a high receding forehead will have an easier time getting clocked. A woman with a very masculine voice will have an easier time getting clocked.  It's not my opinion...its factual.

I have never met a transgirl who talked masculine who had a good time passing.

we can agree to disagree but it's my opinion that voice then hair is not the key to passing.  its my opinion that first is your level of self confidence.  if you're confident in your ability to pass and you dont doubt yourself, others will not either.  then if anything, your overall general appearance.  We see each other long before we hear each other.
I'm speaking on personal experience.  my own voice is not feminine nor is it masculine.....and i have no problems with passing.
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jamie nicole

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 13, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
Getting clocked = seen as trans. Another way of saying "being read" or "failing to pass."

guess i get clocked all the time because I make absolutely no secrets about who i am or who i used to be......
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pebbles

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
guess i get clocked all the time because I make absolutely no secrets about who i am or who i used to be......
It's in reference to strangers would someone know you were trans upon your first meeting or would they think your an ordinary woman until you tell them otherwise.

Passing is important least to me, It's the one very effective defense I have against some very dangerous people. Best chance I have in a job interview to be judged on my caliber not my minority status, It also protects me from the mockery I got before when I was ambiguous in presentation.

I'm lucky on many fronts in regards to this, but it was also hard work voice was my #1 priority. and the effort paid off with me.
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jamie nicole

Quote from: pebbles on July 13, 2011, 07:01:43 PM
It's in reference to strangers would someone know you were trans upon your first meeting or would they think your an ordinary woman until you tell them otherwise.

Passing is important least to me, It's the one very effective defense I have against some very dangerous people. Best chance I have in a job interview to be judged on my caliber not my minority status, It also protects me from the mockery I got before when I was ambiguous in presentation.

I'm lucky on many fronts in regards to this, but it was also hard work voice was my #1 priority. and the effort paid off with me.

dont get me wrong, passing is important.......but to me, I dont care about what others say, think or do.  I dress, do my hair, nails, toenails, makeup.....everything, I do for me...to make me feel good and better about me, not to try and please anybody else. but that's just me. 
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azSam

#38
A feminine voice is as important as any other aspect when you're talking about passing and blending in with the public. Most of us are not gifted with the privilege of transitioning early and often times deal with our voices dropping. If we want to blend in with the public, and not get stared at as soon as a word comes out of our mouth, then it is our obligation to adjust ourselves to some amount of "acceptable standard". This includes the overall image you project from your appearance, to your mannerisms to your voice and speech patterns.

Now with that said, you can adjust yourself to an "acceptable standard" and still be unique. In my experience the acceptable standard is actually quite wide and you only need to fit into this standard with the majority of your presentation for the general public to put you on your desired side of the gender binary.

There are a number of things to consider. Your appearance, your mannerisms and your voice. In my experience, you need to meet about 2.5 of these 3 criteria to pass. For instance, if you have a feminine appearance and mannerisms, but you have a manly voice, it's going to be a lot harder to pass; if you are able to work up to at least an androgynous voice, basically to the point to where people can't tell what you are on the phone, then you should be able to pass without much problem. Granted, it's more complicated because each of those 3 points are quite intricate and complex.




Your appearance; hair, eyebrows, facial hair, clothing; these are the 4 biggest things you can address to passing based on your appearance.

Long, feminine hair styles really transform the entire face. Big bushy eyebrows are not characteristic of a woman's general appearance. Facial hair, obvious one there. Clothes are VITALLY important, picking clothes that can work with your body, even creating a faux shape can give you the appearance of having hips, even if you don't. Not all clothes work for all people; the certain style you like may not be flattering to your body shape. Tight clothing is often the most difficult to get away with; while clothes that are too baggy kind of makes you look more masculine. Experiment, play around, find your middle ground, when you do find the right article of clothing, it will SCREAM at you when you wear it.




Your mannerisms; walk, sit, standing idle, talking with your hands, etc. ; are all subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) queues that people pick up on. Things like avoiding slouching, keeping your legs closed or crossing them over at the knee, walking with shorter strides; these are all small things that can add up. If you walk with large strides and with a heavy foot, you'll look like a guy. Spreading your legs while sitting is a nasty habit that I see a lot of transgirls do.




Now we're at the meat of this write-up.
Your VOICE; resonance, pitch, consistency, loudness; 4 things, in order, that are vital to getting a really feminine voice. I'm going to try to explain each of these points as best I can.

Resonance is absolutely, 100%, without a doubt the most important part of your voice. If you raise your pitch without addressing your resonance, you'll just sound like a man with a high pitched voice. 75% of the voice is resonance, or lack thereof, and the rest is pitch and projection (loudness).

It doesn't matter if you have a low voice, some women have lower voices, and you can have a low voice and still sound feminine. There is a certain pure tone that a lot of women have regardless of their pitch and the reason for that is RESONANCE! Okay, so are you tired of me talking about resonance? Tough! Let's talk about how you can fix it!

So to get the resonance you need to sound feminine is to stop talking from your chest, and to start resonating from your head. Sounds easy, right? It is simple, but it isn't necessarily easy. It's hard because getting out of your chest resonance can be quite challenging, and keeping it in your head resonance takes a bit of muscle strength. I know for me, this was the hardest step for me to tackle. Let's talk about how we can get into your head resonance.

A lot of videos and tutorials online may tell you to go into your falsetto and sound like Mickey Mouse, then bring it down, and soften it. That never worked for me. It may work for you, and it's worth giving a try, I'll post some links at the bottom of this write-up for how to do this. For me, getting out of my chest voice involved singing at my upper range. When you do this you'll feel your larynx (Adam's apple) raise up to a higher position in your throat, this is where it needs to be. Another way was to try to sound surprised, think of when someone surprises you with tickets to a concert and you're saying in an excited voice, "Wow, Thank you for the tickets! These are super mega totally cool!!" You may feel your larynx rise when you talk like that, pay attention to this feeling and try to raise the larynx even further to reduce the resonance.

When you try to sing, find someone who is at the upper end of your range but doesn't make you strain too hard or cause your voice to "crack" too much. After a few songs you may feel your voice getting tired, this is normal. What is happening is the muscles which raise your larynx and tighten your vocal chords are weak, and like any other muscle they need to be strengthened. This brings me to my next point.

Practice is vital because it adds much needed strength to your muscles. If you remember, consistency was one of the 4 points I brought up on how to work on your voice. Practice will bring consistency. As you strengthen your muscles, you will also get a higher range because as your muscles get stronger you can pull your vocal chords tighter and get higher pitches, much like a guitar string.

Pitch is an easy part to address. After you tackle resonance, just play with the pitch and get to something that you think sounds good. Be careful not to get too high, because girls are very erratic with the pitch of their voice.  Girls put emphasis on certain words and statements by using pitch variations, while guys tend to project louder while being more monotone. Think of the differences between guys and girls when they say, "What a cute kitty/cat!" Girls will put an emphasis on pitch and it almost sounds like they're singing. While guys tend say it more quickly and to the point, while putting emphasis on certain words like "cute" by saying it louder.

Girl's will also elongate words of the sentence, for instance when saying "What a cute kitty!", girls may elongate the Y at the end of "kitty", so it may sound more like "kittyyyyyy-". This may be a cliché, but it does tend to be true for a lot "standard" girls.

Loudness/Project your voice. Another problem I had for a while was I had a habit of talking a bit too softly. This has a tendency to sound "fake". Just try to talk louder while maintaining your resonance and pitch. It's not too challenging, but it is something you need to be conscious of.




I have a few extra tips about your voice.

Record yourself. I know you didn't want to hear this, but it's super important, and it can REALLY help you. I've named a condition that we all feel when we record ourselves, the "Butthole Complex"; because you feel like a butthole when you hear yourself. But it is really really important to do, the reason it's so important is because you need to hear yourself outside of your head. When you talk, your sense of how you sound is flavored because your voice is resonating directly into your ears. Recording yourself is VITAL.

Everything is cute or sad. Lots of "aww"s, girls do it ALL THE TIME. When somebody says something, just say, "awww". If you see a bug clinging to life on your windshield as you drive 85mph down the highway, just say "aww" (and laugh a little because it's funny!).

After a while, when you get adjusted to your new voice and you become accustom to talking in your higher resonance, slightly higher pitch, and projecting your voice, you'll feel your voice sort-of click into place. This is hard to explain, it may have something to do with muscle memory. Once you get to that point, you'll find that you have a new lower range while maintaining this voice, you may not be able to get down to your overall low while in this voice, because this voice has its own unique range. This is something I've personally experienced, but I don't know if many others experience this.

When I try to talk at a lower range while in my preferred voice, my voice cracks and I can't get any lower. It's a different feeling than trying to drop down to my lower range while in falsetto.

Last suggestion I'm going to give is how you can practice talking to strengthen your muscles. I do suggest the use of a spectrogram. This link will give you information on where you can get one, how to set it up, and how to use it. The software is free and it can be a valuable tool for training purposes. It can show you where your voice is sitting as far as pitch and it can help keep you at a proper range, because a lot of times your voice drops over extended use.




Finally here are the links I said I'd give you.



This one helped me a lot.


Hope this helps someone, took me a while to put together.
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Samantharz on July 13, 2011, 09:11:19 PM





Your appearance; hair, eyebrows, facial hair, clothing; these are the 4 biggest things you can address to passing based on your appearance.

Long, feminine hair styles really transform the entire face. Big bushy eyebrows are not characteristic of a woman's general appearance. Facial hair, obvious one there. Clothes are VITALLY important, picking clothes that can work with your body, even creating a faux shape can give you the appearance of having hips, even if you don't. Not all clothes work for all people; the certain style you like may not be flattering to your body shape. Tight clothing is often the most difficult to get away with; while clothes that are too baggy kind of makes you look more masculine. Experiment, play around, find your middle ground, when you do find the right article of clothing, it will SCREAM at you when you wear it.



Your mannerisms; walk, sit, standing idle, talking with your hands, etc. ; are all subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) queues that people pick up on. Things like avoiding slouching, keeping your legs closed or crossing them over at the knee, walking with shorter strides; these are all small things that can add up. If you walk with large strides and with a heavy foot, you'll look like a guy. Spreading your legs while sitting is a nasty habit that I see a lot of transgirls do.




Now we're at the meat of this write-up.
Your VOICE; resonance, pitch, consistency, loudness; 4 things, in order, that are vital to getting a really feminine voice. I'm going to try to explain each of these points as best I can.

Resonance is absolutely, 100%, without a doubt the most important part of your voice. If you raise your pitch without addressing your resonance, you'll just sound like a man with a high pitched voice. 75% of the voice is resonance, or lack thereof, and the rest is pitch and projection (loudness).


Ok wow amazing post if i could of given you a reward I so totally would hmm let me see
CLOTHING
That i have covered i mean i have no muscle and well generally have a 'feminine structure" so clothing is no issue the hair stuff i go to a schooll wear boys may not have medium lengh hair so therefore no long hair. and i need to hide me from everyone so eyebrows are bushy.

MANNERISMS
Gosh recently i have worked on this and well gladly i walk up straight never slough unless sad.
sadly hard to break legs wide open but i will!!
i walk in little strides a lot and when i stand still i have always just swayed side to side.
I talk with my hands to the point i dont think about it , it just is natural.
Most of this stuff is becoming natural i think in a few months i couldnt do this stuff like a boy even if i wanted lol

VOICE
I will get there soon like in the next month or so

Make up
Things like this you just must know and i will in time

AND thank you so much girls wow so many posts and every single one helped i am extremely thankful to each of you  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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