When it comes to being trans, I mean? And what are your responses? I've heard all kinds of terrible arguments against "transgenders" (as a lot of ignorant people refer to us as, instead of "transgender people" or "transsexual people") from people who seem to think they're educated on the topic when they aren't, and who think they're informed enough to develop a staunch opinion on transgender people after watching one episode of Dr. Phil about transgender kids. A few stupid arguments I've heard are:

"Well, what if I wanted to change my race from black to white (or vice versa)? I can't do that, can I? So why should you be able to change your sex?"
All Michael Jackson jokes aside, this is true, you CAN'T change the race you were born as. But then again, I'm not trying to change the sex I was born as either. I've long accepted that my DNA reads female and that some parts of my body will never be fully male. What I'm changing is the body I've been given, to make it more like the gender of my brain, which is different from that of my body. I'm doing this for MYSELF, so that my body and brain can be more congruent.

"Why can't you just accept yourself the way you are instead of trying to be something you're not?"
I have accepted myself the way I am - a female to male transsexual person who has a female body but identifies as a male. You are the one who can't accept it. Basically what you're saying is "why can't you just accept yourself the way everyone else wants to see you?" And as for "trying to be something I'm not," well, I think we all know that trying to fit myself into a female mould would be trying to be something I'm not. Essentially, here, the ignorant person is saying I'm trying to be something that they think I'm not.


"You don't need to change your body to match your mind. You can change your mind to match your body."
What this implies is that being transsexual is something that's purely mental, and that there's something "sick" or "abnormal" going on in my brain that needs to be fixed, instead of the other way around (the problem being with my body), and that bothers me. People who say ->-bleeped-<- like this are the ones who watch one episode of Tyra and think they know everything, when in fact they don't. I haven't really thought of a great response to this one because I haven't really gotten it myself, I've just seen people say it around the internet. Does anyone know what a good rebuttal to that one might be? I've only gotten this once, from my mother, before she knew a lot about being trans. And I just said "because that's not what I want to do." hahah.

And finally, one that really pisses me off:
"You're still a girl/still a she until you get surgery."
Oh really? And do you even know what kind of surgery that is? It's funny, because most people who say this to transguys  and transwomen don't even know exactly how genital reconstructive surgery works, yet they're fully convinced that until we get this strange, mysterious surgery they know nothing about, we're still our birth sex! To this I usually say "it's not about what's on my birth certificate or my surgical status. I'm a male now, because my brain is fully male, and it's my GENDER that matters, not my physical state." what also irritates me about this argument is that the person seems to think that, with no previous education on the topic and no personal experience, they feel entitled to making up the rules for how other people live their lives. Where do they get this idea that "surgery makes the man/woman" and who told them they were the ones who get to make the rules on what makes you male or female? I don't think so.

What are some of the most irritating, obnoxious arguments you've heard?

The most irritating thing is when people bring religion into it. "God made you this way, so you shouldn't be changing your body." Uh, yeah, really? I don't believe in god (not an atheist, because I don't define myself by describing what I'm not), but even if I did, I would still say that god messed up by giving me, a male, a physically female body at birth. All I say to this one is "Whether god exists or not, I still feel the same way. I'm a guy who was born with a physically female body, and I'm simply changing that so my mind and my body are aligned, and so other people see me the way I see myself."

The other thing that irritates me is when people say things like, "Well, people change. Just because you feel like this now doesn't mean you'll always feel like this. You're making a mistake and you'll regret it five years later." This, after I tell them that I feel like I'm male and that I've felt like that my whole life, even when I was a little (younger than 5) kid. And after I tell them I spent years, and a ridiculous amount of money, trying to be happy as a female. No, I'm not a tomboy, or a butch female, or a woman who's trying to break gender stereotypes. I'm a man. A transman, but still a man.

Then, of course, some people say, "But you're so young! Are you sure you want to do this?" implying that because I have recently left behind my teenage years (I'm 21 next month) I still don't know what I'm doing with my life. The stupid thing about this is I've only heard it from people who are either the same age as me, or only 2 years older.

"God doesn't make mistakes"

It's lol-worthy really.

And yeah, people who think this magic surgery is what will make me a woman also annoy me. So do people who expect me to sleep with someone without telling them I'm pre-op. >.>

Quote"God doesn't make mistakes"

I always respond to this one with: No, he didn't, this is something that happens in utero, so if you have a problem with me following god's plan then go take it up with him; not me.

"Well, I'm a rich person in a poor person's body!"
Just... argh.

Quote"You don't need to change your body to match your mind. You can change your mind to match your body."

No witty comeback, but this simply is not true. If it were, it would be the prescribed treatment.
I personally spent many years attempting to do just that, with all kinds of help. Yet, here I am.
So yeah, it's a pretty dumb ignorant comment.

For me, pretty much any comment that does not come from a place of acceptance sounds stupid.

I believe religion and faith should be about building people up and helping them get along in this world, not about tearing them down.
So it sounds totally rediculous when people use god or religion to support their own insecurity.

From my mom when I came out:

Me: I'm trans.

Mom: Since when?

Me: Since as long as I have memories!  From my earliest childhood.

Mom: But you were married!

Me: I know.

Mom: But you were an eagle scout!

Me: I know.  I did lots of things to compensate for this and make it go away.  Did you ever wonder why I married someone I only knew for two months?

Mom: No...



When I came out on Facebook, I had someone say "but you were such a cute guy, why would you do this to yourself?"  Thankfully it was the only comment I got that wasn't just 100% supportive.  Someone told me the girl probably had a crush on me, but it's not like I ever noticed (it was someone I used to work with).

I have a friend who didn't understand how serious I was about all this until recently, and every time it came up, he'd say "You're too cool to be a guy".
Seriously?

Knowing me, someone who doesn't get along with the vast majority of the female population, how can you even say this? My response, when it wasn't a torrent of obscenity, was just "I'm too cool not to be a guy". Also, way to ->-bleeped-<-talk your own gender, bro.

Luckily I've never gotten the "You're too pretty to transition", 'cause I was always kind of...fugly as a chick, but I did formulate what I think is a great retaliation.

"You're too pretty/handsome to transition!"
"And you're too stupid to live, but you're doing it anyway".

Quote from: N.Chaos on July 16, 2011, 12:24:06 PM
Luckily I've never gotten the "You're too pretty to transition", 'cause I was always kind of...fugly as a chick, but I did formulate what I think is a great retaliation.

Haha, this reminds me of something I had told to me once in high school. I was chilling in one of the art rooms, waiting for a couple of friends, and some underclassmen came in and looked at me and asked point blank, "Are you a boy or a girl? Because you'd be a really ugly girl."

My friend got all pissy about it; I took it as a compliment. It's a fond memory now.

Uh...on topic...I don't have anything original to add. The only argument I've heard from someone made to me personally was the usual dumb one: that God created me this way (and therefore sees me as female) and wouldn't want me to transition, but rather to live life as a woman, and that it's the devil who has me thinking I'm male.

It was from my godfather. I didn't tell him that, while I have started believing in God (from personal experiences), that I don't believe there's a devil -- that that's more symbolic than anything else. So far my response has just been explaining why I disagree, and why I couldn't live life as a woman (juxtaposing that to life as a man, pulling from what I know and experiences being determined as both). I was explaining as a matter of respect, trying to get him to understand where I'm coming from...then he completely disrespected me, offended me even (and that's hard to do), and started putting words in my mouth. I lost all respect then. He knows I'm doing this regardless of anything else because I know I have to, and quite frankly I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm done trying to explain now that I see he's not trying to understand.

This hasn't been wrapped up yet, but I have no idea what's coming around the corner next.

Quote from: bojangles on July 16, 2011, 11:29:15 AMI believe religion and faith should be about building people up and helping them get along in this world, not about tearing them down.
So it sounds totally rediculous when people use god or religion to support their own insecurity.

This.

i agree with so much of you said but on a serious note don't bash tyra. (of course watching one episode on tv doesn't make you a trans expert, but) the tyra show special on trans people was one of the most respectful, informative, and well-done that i have ever seen.

Quote from: RyGuy on July 16, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
i agree with so much of you said but on a serious note don't bash tyra. (of course watching one episode on tv doesn't make you a trans expert, but) the tyra show special on trans people was one of the most respectful, informative, and well-done that i have ever seen.

Oh, I know, the Tyra specials on transgender folks were much better than those on some other talk shows. I used to watch that show religiously after school, lol. However, as informative as her specials on trans-people might be, extremely ignorant people will only take from the show what they want to hear ("ewww i saw a transgender on tyra it was nasty smh these kids are sick," ->-bleeped-<- like that, you know?). However, I've also heard quite a few people use Tyra as a reference when they're talking about how transgender children "can't possibly know they're transgender at such a young age." So while it's a good starter for people who genuinely want to learn about the situation of trans people, they can't pack enough information into one hour to make someone stubborn and ignorant change their views.

First thought, yes, when people bring religion into it.

"God made you a girl, he gave you the body to grow into a woman. God doesn't make mistakes!"
Four things:
- It's entirely plausible that, if I was indeed created by some deity, they decided to make my brain male and my body female as a challenge/trololol/etc. I don't find it a mistake. Just an obstacle, not "feelings I must oppress".
- I'm not religious. I don't believe any deities directly made me. You can believe that if you want, it's just not convincing.
- Don't put words in your deities' mouths. You cannot possibly speak for any gods, no matter how much ancient man-written text you read. Judge not, lest ye be judged, you smug twats.
- I know a lot of the smarter breed of Christians are evolutionists and don't believe in the great flood, but the ones that argue over transsexuality with me are creationists. So I like to bring up, hell yes he does make mistakes. After the great flood (Noah's Ark), he goes, "OH ME! That was dumb, why'd I do that. I can think of nine hundred better ways I coulda solved that problem. Poop. Oh well. Here's a rainbow, guys." I'm paraphrasing, of course. "Oh, but that was DIFFERENT!" still a
mistake.

"BUT YOU'RE SO GIRLY! D8 You played Barbie dolls! You collected carebears! You played dress-up! You like men! You were in ballet for a year and wanted to be in the advanced class! You wore dresses and liked it! You hate hunting and guns and manree man stuff! HOW CAN YOU BE MALE?!"
- Hi, yeah, having a girly sister can severely limit one's activities. XD But I did girly things because I enjoyed them. I still do. I'm thinking of getting barbie dolls again to play with -- yeah, teenager playing with dolls, w00t - Seriously, if a natal-guy did all this when he was a kid and still ID'd as male, people'd just laugh and say he was a sissy, gay, or just girly. But being a "some assembly required" male means I have to be the most masculine douche in the universe. 
- I don't have that typical trans-story. I was completely androgynous as a kid. I got my male cousin to play dolls'n'action figures with me. I didn't play trucks unless it was with him, because it was more fun. We STILL play with dolls when he comes over, and we're both well over the age where people consider that normal.
- Masculine =/= man. Feminine =/= female.
- I'm a drag-queen-in-training (because I'd feel like I was cheating if I did it pre-T). Wrap your mind around that one, binary-person.
- Homosexuals exist OMG D8 NUUUUUUUUU GAYCOOTIES


"But you're so pretty! How can you be male?"
- Spongebob: "Am I preeeeeeeetty girl? 8D"
- Pretty guys don't exist...? What. Jeffree Star, dude. He's pretty. ♥


I saw a video of Kim Petras, and some anal douchewads were pointing out how she looked like a drag queen just because of a few "masculine" features like her face shape...? On a biological female, no one would go, "FFFFFFFFF SHE MUST HAVE A Y CHROMOSOME! Just look at that jawline!" No, it'd just be a facial feature. I have a friend who does this; he calls it proof they were born a certain sex because of some facial features that aren't masculine or feminine anyway, but if a transperson has them, they don't look like their gender because only people born within their gender are allowed to have those.


"BUT YOU CAN NEVER BE BIOLOGICALLY MALE! AND YOU CAN NEVER HAVE A PEEN0RZ!"
- Because everyone can so totally see everyone's chromosomes. Yeah. I so forgot that.
- Clits and penises are the same thing. They're made of the same thing. Clits are the OG of penises. They're the grandfather of penises. My clit works for the president, yo' dick, it ain't worth sh*t.
- I don't want a penis 8D I'm happy with my packer. I can cockslap people. Can your penis do that? I THINK NOT!


"But... if you date guys... why not be a straight tomboy chick? Or a lesbian?"
- EW COOTIES D8 loljk.
- Because that would require liking my side-dents, lack of facial hair, titties, stupid voice, and femmy face. I am insanely uncomfortable.
- I'm a guy. I've contemplated male lesbian, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable.
- "Because gay men's cocks taste like rainbows and they have much better hair than straight boys." -- ftmark1, youtube. XD


"But what if you change your mind?! You might decide you LIKE being a lady! AND THEN WHAT WILL YOU DOOOO. How can you even know you're transgender at such a young age?! D8<"
- I've never considered myself a girl. Even as a kid, I thought gender was something silly adults made up. I've felt the way I have for ten years, coming up on eleven. If that's a phase, then world war two was a squabble.
- If one day I regret it, which I doubt, I can go the route of FtMtF. Believe me, though. It won't happen.
- When did you know YOUR gender for sure? From when you were little? Does that make your identity any less invalid? Should people have gone, "Oh, let's not let them dress as their gender, they can't possibly know who they are yet!" to you?


All the arguments are stupid, when you think about it.

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on July 16, 2011, 11:43:53 AM
When I came out on Facebook, I had someone say "but you were such a cute guy, why would you do this to yourself?"  Thankfully it was the only comment I got that wasn't just 100% supportive.

I see where she's getting at. Don't you ever feel kinda sad when you see really attractive people transition? lol

I think the stupidest one was, "you gave birth so you can't be a guy."

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on July 16, 2011, 03:05:07 PM
I see where she's getting at. Don't you ever feel kinda sad when you see really attractive people transition? lol

It seems like people who are attractive in one gender tend to be attractive in others.  Add in the extra confidence from being in the right body, and I'd say most are sexier post-transition.  No problem with that 

Okay, so one I've heard a lot is your so pretty why mess with that? Okay, one, if I'm attractive now, I'll be hella attractive after my transition.

One thing that I get a lot from my Godmother is, once you start counseling you may see that you are really female. Uh, hello, even she noticed the signs from the time I was real young, and two, which I've told her often enough, is that therapy will change nothing, this is who I am, and I was never happier until I accepted myself for who I am. The first time I put on a binder and my boobs were gone, the first time I put on the correct clothes (for me that is), when I chopped my hair off (it was to the mid of my back), I never felt more like me, like a weight had been lifted, it was such a euphoric feeling that I cannot even begin to describe.

okay, I don't know if anyone else has had this argument but what about: "When you change your name, are you still going to go by (insert femme name) at work so no one's confused?" This one as irritating as it is, is the easiest one to counter. My coworkers all know that  I'm changing my name and they're cool with it, in fact, most of them have taken it upon themselves to call me Adrian.

Ooh, I just thought of a good one. "So, which bathroom do you use?" The womens, duh. There's no way I pass enough yet to pull that one off (at least until I start T), and what business is it of yours anyways?

Friend: Hey
Me: hey there sweetie
Friend: Sweetie? your not a girl ? how can you say that?
Me: But i am a girl
Friend: to be honest you never will be
Me: bit**!!!
Ex-Friend: well at least i never had a dick....

Friend: Hey
Me: hey there sweetie
Friend: Sweetie? your not a girl ? how can you say that?
Me: But i am a girl
Friend: to be honest you never will be
Me: bit**!!!
Ex-Friend: well at least i never had a dick....
Me: Oh please, you and your mom have dicks a plenty every time the navy has shore leave, and even though you've never had one, I'm glad to see it didn't keep you from being one.

"Ex-Friend: well at least i never had a dick..."

answer?- "And honey with your looks, I'm afraid you aren't likely to get any either!"