Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place?  Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye?  What on earth did I see in them in the first place?  I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 19, 2011, 07:51:17 AM
Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place?  Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye?  What on earth did I see in them in the first place?  I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.

That's currently the attitude I'm adopting with my biological father and his wife (who I've stopped referring to as my dad and stepmom).  I was nothing more than a tool that they used to try to hurt my mom, but they partially abandoned me when they saw I wasn't playing their game, and totally abandoned me after my stepsister purposely blabbed to them about me being trans before I had a chance to tell them personally.  So that relationship is over and I don't care anymore.

Last night my friend suggested I should go further: stop referring to my biological dad as thus.  His initials were GRR, so I should just start calling him Grr.  Then there's Grr's wife.

I am willing to pay the ultimate price for this.

Heck for me.. if everything fails horribly, I will be struggling to have Maiara engraved on my tombstone, to the bitter end. Friends, carrer, family.... my own life, everything. I am doing my best it doesn't comes down to this.

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 12, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
Every day is a risk of paying a price, potentially the ultimate price with our lives, either because of how our bodies are now or because of our past. That may be the highest price of all, the risk we face of being true to ourselves despite societal norms.

Can you explain what you mean here? Are you saying "We are at high risk of being killed if we are seen as trans?"....

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 19, 2011, 07:51:17 AM
Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place?  Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye?  What on earth did I see in them in the first place?  I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.

Honestly I have only had one friend freak out over this and no longer talks to me. As you said, what did I see in them in the first place? I was willing to give up a LOT to do this but it turned out that very few bad things happened to me..

Quote from: Stephe on July 19, 2011, 11:18:52 AM
Can you explain what you mean here? Are you saying "We are at high risk of being killed if we are seen as trans?"....

Some people kill trans just because they are trans.

Quote from: Annah on July 20, 2011, 04:40:23 PM
Some people kill trans just because they are trans.

Again I ask: are they saying we are at high risk just for being trans and open about it?  I understand some trans people are killed for being trans, but it's far from common for a trans person to be attacked -just- because they are trans. That does happen (and happens to other minorities) but that isn't usually what causes the attack.

I feel confidant in saying most hate crimes against trans people are from being involved in high risk behavior not from them simply being trans.

http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf

The GGB report states for Brazil that 92% of the murdered trans people in 2008 earned their living as sex workers.

Another problem is many MTF forget they are now truly women and do things that ANY woman would find risky such as walking alone out at night in a back alley or into a dark parking lot. Or walking though a secluded area. If a straight guy attempts to sexually assault them and then finds out she is trans, he is more likely to "flip out" and it turn deadly. Clearly these people are not asking for this attack but we need to educate trans people about these rules natal females are taught early on about basic "safety rules for women".

The other common way a trans person is at risk of being seriously hurt or killed is playing the "stealth" game. Out hitting on and picking up straight guys, being confidant no one will ever clock them. The guy somehow discovers they are "A woman with a transsexual history" or they are pre-op etc and he feels like he has been tricked into having what he perceives as homosexual sex. Things can quickly turn ugly. It's why IMHO that being stealth may seem safer on the surface. But if you are later clocked it is much more dangerous than if you are open about your past right off the bat. YOU might feel your history doesn't matter but you can't assume your partner, especially a casual one you don't know well, feels the same way.

Angie Zapata was a trans woman who was murdered on July 17, 2008, in Greeley, Colorado.  Allen Andrade, who learned eighteen-year-old Angie was transgender after meeting her and spending several days with her, beat her to death with a fire extinguisher. Andrade's attorneys used a gay panic defense, implying that Andrade suddenly "snapped" when he learned Zapata was not born biologically female.

I am NOT saying these victims deserved this fate nor am I defending the people who do these things to trans people. Just that I believe a LOT of the murders and attacks that happen to trans people are due to risky behavior, NOT from just being openly trans...

Quote from: Stephe on July 20, 2011, 10:59:49 PM
Again I ask: are they saying we are at high risk just for being trans and open about it?  I understand some trans people are killed for being trans, but it's far from common for a trans person to be attacked -just- because they are trans.

Well, yeah. Not too many trans get killed because they are trans if they are stealth. Trans are killed through hate crimes because they are out of the closet about it or someone finds out they are trans, thus being outed.

QuoteI feel confidant in saying most hate crimes against trans people are from being involved in high risk behavior not from them simply being trans.

This is not true either. There are many trans men and women who are killed simply because they are trans and not because they were whoring out there bodies. A friend and classmate of mine is an associate pastor at a Metropolitan Community Church in Baltimore and she buried two transgirls this year alone. Neither were whores or were promiscious. Both of them were killed on their way home from work (a legal job...not prostitution).

Another example is the girl from Baltimore who was beaten to a pulp in a McDonalds simply because she had to pee. There was no high risk behavior in that either.

QuoteThe GGB report states for Brazil that 92% of the murdered trans people in 2008 earned their living as sex workers.

other research also show that the vast majority of South Americans are working slave labor wages just to live. Making tshirts for one dollar a day so we can buy them at a cheaper cost. The prostitution rates (for any gender and gender variant) are so high because the will to survive outweighs the wills of compromising one's morality.

Brazil also ranks as the highest South American country inflicted with AIDS. This does not mean that gay men stereotypically get AIDs.

These statistics are situational country by country

QuoteAnother problem is many MTF forget they are now truly women and do things that ANY woman would find risky such as walking alone out at night in a back alley or into a dark parking lot. Or walking though a secluded area. If a straight guy attempts to sexually assault them and then finds out she is trans, he is more likely to "flip out" and it turn deadly. Clearly these people are not asking for this attack but we need to educate trans people about these rules natal females are taught early on about basic "safety rules for women".

I agree.

QuoteThe other common way a trans person is at risk of being seriously hurt or killed is playing the "stealth" game. Out hitting on and picking up straight guys, being confidant no one will ever clock them.

I do not see transwomen or men who are stealth as a game. They are entitled to be seen as their true gender.

However, I do agree that transwomen who are pre or post op should tell their dates beforehand about their past. I always do.  The ones who walk away ...then that tells you it wasn't meant to be. The ones who stay are usually more mature.

Quote from: Annah on July 20, 2011, 11:24:31 PM
Well, yeah. Not too many trans get killed because they are trans if they are stealth. Trans are killed through hate crimes because they are out of the closet about it or someone finds out they are trans, thus being outed.

I do not see transwomen or men who are stealth as a game. They are entitled to be seen as their true gender.

However, I do agree that transwomen who are pre or post op should tell their dates beforehand about their past. I always do.  The ones who walk away ...then that tells you it wasn't meant to be. The ones who stay are usually more mature.

I've done a LOT of research on this and the vast majority of the murders I have seen are either: a) sex workers (in any country, world wide numbers show 55-80% are sex workers in any given year.) b) They were in a bad part of town late at night alone (being ignorant of general women's safety). c) They were stealth playing the "I can date/hit on straight guys and not tell them" game and got caught.

VERY few of the crimes are committed on someone living a normal life, not doing one of these high risk behaviors. A person who is just a trans person that doesn't pass 100% and was murdered for that reason alone in what would be normally considered a safe place for a woman to be.  Yes it happens but it is a SMALL minority of the trans murders/assaults compared to the others. Most seems to happen from some form of "discovery" after being assumed to be female, not from someone being recognized right off the bat as being trans.

And just because a woman is assaulted doesn't by default mean it was because she is a trans woman. Most violent crimes happen to women, period. Being stealth doesn't minimize this risk. But yes if a trans woman is sexually assaulted, it is MUCH more likely to turn ugly/deadly if this "discovery" part happens. I would venture to guess that an out trans person would be less likely to be sexually assaulted by a straight man to start with? Irregardless this is, most times these are linked to b) above, them being ignorant of basic women's safety rules.

And no I didn't say "stealth" game is the -living stealth to the general public- part.  Everyone should have free choice to decide if they feel that is important to them or not.

The -game- part starts when you are being stealth to your sexual partners or even a date. I'm sure some people will find this insulting but, I see that as a deadly game because you are gambling your partner feels the same way about your past as you do, or that they won't find out. Many partners will not feel the same as you and the police blotters are full of dead trans people who played this game and lost.

I don't have any statistics but I would be shocked if the % of trans murder cases that didn't fit a, b or c were any higher than the murders that happen to any other group of people.

Unfortunately in todays day in age; you just have to pay the price to be who you are, and there is no way around it. So better to learn to accept you are going to have to give up on things you dont find to be fair and become stronger about it. Because nobody else is going to make the decision to change our gender for us and nobody else is going to be able to make the difficult things any less difficult- because its mostly their fault we have to go through it. So we need to be the ones who are strong and believe God has our back just as much as He/She has anybody elses. I do.

I haven't transitioned yet but I've already gave up some things:

- A career in business (I graduated four years ago with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration)
- Money (Otherwise I'd be making a comfortable salary)
- Having a girlfriend
- my cisgendered friends

I guess you can say that I haven't truly given them up yet and I've been struggling with myself in the sense of just how transgender am I to be willing to sacrifice it all, but I in my heart wish that I could sacrifice everything for this.

Quote from: SkylerKts on July 21, 2011, 12:44:37 AM
Unfortunately in todays day in age; you just have to pay the price to be who you are, and there is no way around it. So better to learn to accept you are going to have to give up on things you dont find to be fair and become stronger about it. Because nobody else is going to make the decision to change our gender for us and nobody else is going to be able to make the difficult things any less difficult- because its mostly their fault we have to go through it. So we need to be the ones who are strong and believe God has our back just as much as He/She has anybody elses. I do.

I just can't get over my mom and dad though, because they've done so much for me and I feel like I have to give back to them.  In addition, they aren't doing well financially, and I feel like I just can't abandon them and let them suffer.  I don't know if I could live with myself.

Quote from: Katelyn on July 21, 2011, 01:15:16 AM
I just can't get over my mom and dad though, because they've done so much for me and I feel like I have to give back to them.  In addition, they aren't doing well financially, and I feel like I just can't abandon them and let them suffer.  I don't know if I could live with myself.

I don't know your situation but the best way to repay parents for all of their support throughout your life is to be a success in your life, I know it's hard to see a parent struggling to come to terms with this but surely you owe it to yourself to be yourself (& happy for it)

You also run a high risk in the GID incapacitating you if you don't deal with it. The harder you try to ignore it, the stronger it will re-emerge. You may find yourself completely unable to do your job because all you can do is think about the GID and what you will do about it. Then you may find yourself not able to keep your life together much less help any one else.

Quote from: JessicaH on July 21, 2011, 12:25:57 PM
You also run a high risk in the GID incapacitating you if you don't deal with it. The harder you try to ignore it, the stronger it will re-emerge. You may find yourself completely unable to do your job because all you can do is think about the GID and what you will do about it. Then you may find yourself not able to keep your life together much less help any one else.

amen sister. Before being trans absorbed so much of my thoughts, "how am I going to deal with this" etc. Now it's barely a blip on my radar. You also have to decide what is important. IMHO being HAPPY is what matters. Do whatever you need to do to improve the quality of your life overall. Being forced to live as the wrong gender but having more money etc isn't going to make you happy..

Actually any price, being old enough to die on the op-table, stroke, etc. etc.

During my early transition i agreed to quadruple bypass op as so to be acceptable for GRS, one year later crainiotomy (open the skull)  to fix a haematoma. Never mind the thousends of $$$ and not even talking SRS yet.

The alternative was just to end my live there and then when it all came to a head. 26. Feb 2010

Axelle
PS: so I'm not that strong a person as a lot of folks would have seen it when I transitioned.

What price transition?

A great post, and a question I've been avoiding giving myself an answer for many years.
I've been unwilling to chance losing family or friends.

I've rationalized this failure in a variety of ways.
My families was to fragile emotionally to handle my wish to transition much less the transition itself.
My friends would be initially supportive, but would inevitably drift away.
My workplace would be tolerant in the disapproving way institutions have of showing tolerance.
I'm to old to root up my life.

All of these evasions are not without merit, yet they do nothing to satisfy the itch that emerged from somewhere many years ago, and even with a diminishing sex drive has never really abated.

One thing seems clear to me with a powerful itch one will scratch, although not always in the desired spot.

When I was fourteen, I was willing to pay any price. I was able to begin when I was ready to lose everything... though, to be fair, I didn't have much.

I was in an odd spot in my life... I didn't even know my family, really, because I had isolated myself from them for years, just living in my own world. I had no friends, and no money. I did have an ipod though, and access to the Internet. Those things were pretty cool; the ipod allowed me to channel my hatred for everything into creativity, and the Internet let me plan transitioning so I wouldn't go crazy.

So, the willingness to lose family that I didn't really know, and friends that I didn't have, was easy. The willingness to be an object of hatred, so as to make me paranoid with every step I take, was less easy, but I was ready.

A lot of that stemmed from pessimism and grim reading, looking back. I haven't had to lose anything... and I have not been hated for what I'm doing by anyone. I'm still ready, every day, to make those sacrifices again if I have to, but I don't believe that my life will come to that. And for that I am infinitely grateful. 

I just pray the day doesn't come that my life turns upside down. But if everything transition-related was reversed, then at least I'd have boobs. 


Best wishes everyone...

I know the mantra is people who don't support you aren't worth having around, but if for some reason it came between my family and transitioning it would be a tough call.  I'm okay with paying pretty much anything except them.

Quote from: Jordan R.T. on July 23, 2011, 12:03:36 AM
When I was fourteen, I was willing to pay any price. I was able to begin when I was ready to lose everything... though, to be fair, I didn't have much.

I was in an odd spot in my life... I didn't even know my family, really, because I had isolated myself from them for years, just living in my own world. I had no friends, and no money. I did have an ipod though, and access to the Internet. Those things were pretty cool; the ipod allowed me to channel my hatred for everything into creativity, and the Internet let me plan transitioning so I wouldn't go crazy.

So, the willingness to lose family that I didn't really know, and friends that I didn't have, was easy. The willingness to be an object of hatred, so as to make me paranoid with every step I take, was less easy, but I was ready.

A lot of that stemmed from pessimism and grim reading, looking back. I haven't had to lose anything... and I have not been hated for what I'm doing by anyone. I'm still ready, every day, to make those sacrifices again if I have to, but I don't believe that my life will come to that. And for that I am infinitely grateful. 

I just pray the day doesn't come that my life turns upside down. But if everything transition-related was reversed, then at least I'd have boobs. 


Best wishes everyone...

Unfortunately most of the things you read about how TG's are generally hated by everyone and how hard it will be unless you hide being trans, is written by people who assume this for their own self and then spread it all over like it is something they have experienced first hand.. I have seen VERY LITTLE of this and most of what I have experienced was far from hatred. If anything the few ignorant responses I have been subjected to were: they saw it as comical, not that they were brought to rage/hatred. I can't base my life and hide my identity on the fact occasionally during transition someone might giggle? O.o