I might be going to this medicaid-covered counseling in my town some time next week. I'm hoping they'll have someone knowledgeable about GID and HRT assessment so that I could go through with it.

I've been "full time" for a year now, though. And I'm looking to change my name as soon as I get a job, probably within the first two weeks of being employed.

I don't really know what gender therapy covers. Like, the questions they ask. The thing that weirds me out, though, is RLE/RLT. The way I understand it, RLE is living as one's preferred gender for a set amount of time.

But... I'm not going to have any ground-breaking revelations with this XD I've already been living as male. My name's unisex, so that's helpful. I pack, I bind, I dress in clothing that calls itself male but is probably effeminate... XD And I go by a male name and pronouns.

So, if you're already full-time prior to RLE... is it weird? XD I mean, I understand they can't just take your word for it (unless maybe you have pictures and such as proof) in a lot of cases.

Honestly, I think it's worth a shot at just putting your foot down and saying that you've been doing RLE for the past year, possibly get a friend to vouch for you or such. If the therapist sees that you are strong on your feet and that you feel normal in your role, it can make some of them say "You know what, you're ready, here you go." - a few members have reported this lucky happening.

However, if you seem uncomfortable in your role, it may cause your therapist to make you do RLE for a longer time. It's not that *you* need it, but these people somehow translate "low confidence" into "the patient is unsure of their choice" when low confidence in a transgender usually comes not from a confused choice but from a denial of hormones and surgery.

There's two types of trans; those who feel comfortable enough in their body to start RLE with just make-up, clothes, wigs, or mannerisms, and then there's the types who are so drastically different in appearance or ability from their preferred sex that, even though they try to transform, it keeps biting them in the butt and they keep feeling "unrealistic" or "ugly" during the process.

Most therapists just don't seem to have the intelligence to figure this out, and treat unconfident Trans as though they don't deserve RLE. I personally hate this type of judgement and it is by no means accurate of most Trans true inner feelings. So depending on wether your currently confident, or wether you're depending on hormones or surgery to gain confidence, the attitude and result of the therapist may vary.

In my case I told my psychologist that I had been "myself" for a long time before I came to see him. Managed to reduce my "sitting around waiting for the T prescription" from a year to 6 months.

I have said this before ... my therapist said my RLE started the minute I started binding --- which I always wore sports bra's because they were all I knew ... so on the 2nd apt she said she was ready to write the letter just let her know when I was ready to start & or when my insurance will start paying for it

I'm a minor, so they'll probably moan about that.
[[Minors can't possibly know their gender (unless they're cis), as you all very well know.  ]]

Robert, that's really awesomely lucky.
Same for Miniar. Nice way of putting it, too, "sitting around waiting for the T prescription", hahaa.

It is a shame that minors are not treated with respect when it comes to gender.
Children may be confused about allot of things but they are seldom wrong when it comes to gender identity and sexual orientation.

I think it's mixed, really -- most everyone's seen that special on little transkids (most of whom don't know the word transgender, which is sweet) whose parents have allowed them to transition early. I saw one kid who never went through female puberty, he had pecs! I am still oozing with jealousyyyy. XD

But I'm prepared to fight.
I mean, the lady on the phone only talked to my mom, so if she's my counselor, she will be wrong about several things regarding my identity. So that'll be fun... but she'd be the first to say I'm wrong, no other therapist has.

Quote from: Silas on July 21, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
I might be going to this medicaid-covered counseling in my town some time next week. I'm hoping they'll have someone knowledgeable about GID and HRT assessment so that I could go through with it.

I've been "full time" for a year now, though. And I'm looking to change my name as soon as I get a job, probably within the first two weeks of being employed.

I don't really know what gender therapy covers. Like, the questions they ask. The thing that weirds me out, though, is RLE/RLT. The way I understand it, RLE is living as one's preferred gender for a set amount of time.

But... I'm not going to have any ground-breaking revelations with this XD I've already been living as male. My name's unisex, so that's helpful. I pack, I bind, I dress in clothing that calls itself male but is probably effeminate... XD And I go by a male name and pronouns.

So, if you're already full-time prior to RLE... is it weird? XD I mean, I understand they can't just take your word for it (unless maybe you have pictures and such as proof) in a lot of cases.

If you been fulltime at work or at school then you got it covered. I wouldn't worry about it. Friends' proof that you were fulltime is not enough to warranted completion of RLE. A letter from a school official or your employer is enough to cover the requirements.

But, to clarify, you need to be fulltime at work or at school with an official or an employer to verify your RLE.

Good luck!

Quote from: Annah on July 22, 2011, 12:24:45 PM
If you been fulltime at work or at school then you got it covered. I wouldn't worry about it. Friends' proof that you were fulltime is not enough to warranted completion of RLE. A letter from a school official or your employer is enough to cover the requirements.

But, to clarify, you need to be fulltime at work or at school with an official or an employer to verify your RLE.

Good luck!

I wouldn't trust my friends if I were my therapist. XD But, I do see why it's not enough. Official letters sound trustworthy.

I'm not currently employed, but I'll be out whenever I am. As for school, I haven't come out to each individual teacher, as I don't feel the need, but I am taking a Spanish class this year, so I'll come out there so my teacher doesn't get her panties in a knot about my referring to myself as male. (I even learned how to say "I'm a transsexual boy" in Spanish! XD) My principal knows, though. Called me "son" after being told, caught himself, and busted out laughing... XD

Not really sure what would count as being out in school. I write "Chris" on all my papers ("Christopher" if I'm let), but I don't correct teachers on pronouns, no matter which ones they use. So I guess I do have a little RLE to go through. o.o That's no fun. XD And it's kind of weird when you think about it. None of my peers have to go to each and every teacher and tell them their gender. Hahahaa.

Quote from: Silas on July 22, 2011, 02:10:52 PM
I wouldn't trust my friends if I were my therapist. XD But, I do see why it's not enough. Official letters sound trustworthy.

I'm not currently employed, but I'll be out whenever I am. As for school, I haven't come out to each individual teacher, as I don't feel the need, but I am taking a Spanish class this year, so I'll come out there so my teacher doesn't get her panties in a knot about my referring to myself as male. (I even learned how to say "I'm a transsexual boy" in Spanish! XD) My principal knows, though. Called me "son" after being told, caught himself, and busted out laughing... XD

Not really sure what would count as being out in school. I write "Chris" on all my papers ("Christopher" if I'm let), but I don't correct teachers on pronouns, no matter which ones they use. So I guess I do have a little RLE to go through. o.o That's no fun. XD And it's kind of weird when you think about it. None of my peers have to go to each and every teacher and tell them their gender. Hahahaa.

See, this is where your RLE experience may be somewhat "blurred" and it is indeed a little more "tougher" for FtM to be considered what is real life experience because a lot of Butch Lesbians wear men's clothes all the time but the thing that stand them out from FTM is the fact that they still identify with the female gender.

If you never came out to your teachers or a guidance counselor it may be a little harder to get that RLE "officiated" because, to play devil's advocate, your therapist could say, "in terms of RLE, what makes you different (outwardly) than a butch lesbian?" Because if you don't come out saying, "Hey, my name is Chris, and I'm a guy" will be harder since there are lesbians dressing up in men's clothes all the time.

One of the major factors of RLE for FTM is not only the binding and dressing up in men's clothes but it is also the social construct of telling your peers and teachers that you identify with the male gender.

Sadly, RLE for MTF is a little bit "easier" since it is usually not socially acceptable for a man (who identifies as male) to wear women's clothing every single day....the execution to commit to RLE for a MTF is a LOT clearer. Because for us girls, it is pretty obvious what we are doing. For you guys, unless you really tell people at your work or school that you identify as the male gender, they will just assume you are a butch les. And that can make your RLE somewhat "clouded."

However, every therapist is totally different so your therapist my just check it off as RLE....but for the most part RLE is also the affirmation that you have told society you are the gender in which you identify with AS WELL as dressing the part.

That sort of makes me wonder about FTMs who enjoy crossdressing as women, and might wish do so for their RLE (but might do something like wearing forms on top of a binder, tucking a packer, etc). Although I suppose that's neither here nor there. Doesn't really apply to me very much, although I'm somewhat effeminate. That's one thing that makes me worry; I'm a little effeminate, gay ("I like men, but in a gay way"), a drag-queen-in-training, and genderqueer, and I don't think I could really hide that from my therapist, not that I'd feel the need.

I'm simply not close to any of my teachers. My art and soon-to-be Spanish teachers are really the only ones I'd think would need to know, since I'll have them for my entire high school "life", whereas my core class teachers like history, science, etc. would only have me for one semester, and after that we'll ignore each other, so I wouldn't build any meaningful relationship with them. Other than asking to be called Christopher, which I don't think they'd question, I wouldn't see why they'd need to know. But, thinking about it, it may aid the confusion of, "Wait, I thought that was a girl student... why does she have a crappy little 'teenage-boy' beard? o.O;"

Peers, though, I'll be with those morons for a REEEEALLY long time. XD They were pretty much all told last year.

If my therapist turns out to be knowledgeable on trans* issues (won't know 'til the coming Friday) and wants me to come out to all my teachers as part of RLE, I can do that, no real problem. It might actually be a good thing -- they might call me "he". XD

I'd always seen a pattern here of MTFs starting RLE and HRT more or less at the same time, or HRT beforehand, depending on the situation. Although I've also seen the same for FTMs, just less.

Name change can be considered proof of going full time.

Quote from: Silas on July 22, 2011, 03:02:27 PM
That sort of makes me wonder about FTMs who enjoy crossdressing as women, and might wish do so for their RLE (but might do something like wearing forms on top of a binder, tucking a packer, etc). Although I suppose that's neither here nor there. Doesn't really apply to me very much, although I'm somewhat effeminate. That's one thing that makes me worry; I'm a little effeminate, gay ("I like men, but in a gay way"), a drag-queen-in-training, and genderqueer, and I don't think I could really hide that from my therapist, not that I'd feel the need.

I wouldnt hide that. It's perfectly normal. To be honest, im very attracted to effeminate gay men and I don't mind saying it lol. I also love strong, strapping ones so Im pretty diverse!

QuoteI'm simply not close to any of my teachers. My art and soon-to-be Spanish teachers are really the only ones I'd think would need to know, since I'll have them for my entire high school "life", whereas my core class teachers like history, science, etc. would only have me for one semester, and after that we'll ignore each other, so I wouldn't build any meaningful relationship with them. Other than asking to be called Christopher, which I don't think they'd question, I wouldn't see why they'd need to know. But, thinking about it, it may aid the confusion of, "Wait, I thought that was a girl student... why does she have a crappy little 'teenage-boy' beard? o.O;"

Usually, I would indeed say it's no one's damn business what they know about you but in terms of RLE, the therapists usually wants you to kinda come out of the closet as it were and live as a man and to be known as a man. However, as I said earlier, every therapist is different so your therapist may say you have fulfilled RLE....but the therapists who are real WPATH sticklers may say otherwise.

QuotePeers, though, I'll be with those morons for a REEEEALLY long time. XD They were pretty much all told last year.

If my therapist turns out to be knowledgeable on trans* issues (won't know 'til the coming Friday) and wants me to come out to all my teachers as part of RLE, I can do that, no real problem. It might actually be a good thing -- they might call me "he". XD

I'd always seen a pattern here of MTFs starting RLE and HRT more or less at the same time, or HRT beforehand, depending on the situation. Although I've also seen the same for FTMs, just less.

Well, I wish you well! Im sure you are an awesome guy!

Quote from: cynthialee on July 22, 2011, 03:53:47 PM
Name change can be considered proof of going full time.

Sometimes. But in all honesty, you can theoretically change your name without doing RLE. People would just assume your parents were "off the chain" lol.

Ive seen girls do RLE and have SRS before their names were ever changed.

I'd think having a male name, having papers that say you changed it to that name, and telling your therapist you ID as male would be one of those "no doubt" things. XD but, I suppose ymmv.

QuoteUsually, I would indeed say it's no one's damn business what they know about you but in terms of RLE, the therapists usually wants you to kinda come out of the closet as it were and live as a man and to be known as a man. However, as I said earlier, every therapist is different so your therapist may say you have fulfilled RLE....but the therapists who are real WPATH sticklers may say otherwise.

Whatever it takes to get T, I suppose I'll go through with it within reason. I think it's very weird, but I get where they're coming from, so it's no real problem. A little trying for a shy person, but oh well.

*salute* We'll see how this goes, then o.o

Again, I believe it's a very ignorant and is certainly not backed up by any study that I know of that in order to be a transsexual who realistically knows and accepts the process of hormones or other surgical changes, you have to wear a dress for a year.

That's what, in my opinion, makes the process a strictly discriminatory process that simply has the purpose of literally causing Trans to commit suicide. Yes, I do know of specific Trans patients who have committed suicide because a professional would not allow them to look or feel more like a woman. I myself have lived over 10 years in suicidal thoughts stricty because no one will give any type of hormones to me (I could have stopped my male puberty/Acromegalic features back at age 10 with the proper professional caring for me!) and I do not wish to wish to wait another 5 years.

Luckily, as I know it, there's no law that prevents a professional from literally giving you hormones on the spot; it's literally up to the professional to choose how long they want to discriminate against you. I personally would not stick with any therapist who has a 1-year RLE process; a proper therapist can check your mental status well into even just 1 month enough to know if you're realistic or not.

Basically, there's the therapists who do not want many patients (will see you multiple times a week to get to know you quickly and factually) and thus want to connect with the patients on a personal level, and then there's the therapists who want to see 200 people in a week and cause you to get an appointment once every 3 weeks. Obviously, the latter is going to take a year to get to know you, and that is not proper IMO.

Kia Ora,

"Different strokes for different "countries"/folks !"

From an opposite direction  perspective and  just slightly off topic but.....................................

I had already lived full time [including name change] for over four years before I had my surgery...

However in regards to Real Life Experience the assessors were required to witness some form of proof....I was fortunate enough to have an old newspaper article where I was being interviewed[including a photo of myself] about the increase in the rodent population on the island where I live[I'm an urban pestologist by profession]...This included "female" name and pronouns Ms............ She..... Her....... etc...

Back when I started HRT, I was fortunate in that I didn't need to do any RLE to get it....However I'm not too sure whether things have changed in Aotearoa [NZ]in this regard...

BTW I have never met any trans-women who were "forced" to wear dresses all the time when doing their RLE... 

But I guess "Different strokes for different therapist/folks !" Perhaps it a fetish of their therapist 

Metta Zenda

Quote from: RhinoP on July 23, 2011, 07:58:21 PM
Again, I believe it's a very ignorant and is certainly not backed up by any study that I know of that in order to be a transsexual who realistically knows and accepts the process of hormones or other surgical changes, you have to wear a dress for a year.

Some countries will disagree with you. Some countries require you to RLE first before HRT. It is what it is.

QuoteLuckily, as I know it, there's no law that prevents a professional from literally giving you hormones on the spot; it's literally up to the professional to choose how long they want to discriminate against you. I personally would not stick with any therapist who has a 1-year RLE process; a proper therapist can check your mental status well into even just 1 month enough to know if you're realistic or not.

You seem to have this perspective that just because a therapist will not give you HRT, then they are discriminating against you. In another post you said your doctor who did not want to test you for your suspected condition was discriminatory against you and in another post you stated an employer who you interviewed with said he did not hire you because he called you ugly and was not hirable, thus being discrminatory. There's a lot of discrimination going on in your life it seems.

Some therapist will hold out on HRT because they feel that their patients may not be ready for them or because the therapist suspects they have some other diagnoses.

You are right...there is no law that prevents a professional from literally giving you hormones on the spot...they actually follow their morality. Their morale is based on their experiences of other patients will dictate in which they ok hrt.

If a therapist gave hrt to people right on the spot, they minus well be selling them from an online pharmacy website.

Since I transitioned, I got to know many transgirls personally through lectures and speaking at UPenn's Transgender Day of Remembrence. I can tell you for a FACT that there are a lot of disturbed people out there who say they are trans. Now I will never question their sincerity and their belief that they are trans (because I am not trained nor do I have a moral authority to do so), but that does not negate the fact that some girls I have met personally is disturbed in one form or another.

It is unethical and immoral to give a mentally unstable person medications that are so powerful that they changed the basic rudamentary body chemistry at the hormonal level. You think a girl is suicidal before HRT? Strip the testosterone in your body and start pumping in estrogen. If she is having as hard time handling her mental affairs, then having a radical body shift of hormones, chemistry, and emotions are only going to make it worse.

Of course all transgirls feel at peace when they get on HRT. Even I did. But you CANNOT discount the fact of the extreme mood changes that will occur when someone switches out their hormones. A stable girl will struggle through it. A girl suffering greatly with other ailments need to get those ailments in check before going to HRT.

And if a girl has GID so bad that she is suicidal, then I would recommend her going RLE right away and then work out the issues concerning HRT.

HRT is not the cure all for people suffering from severe mental depression. HRT helps you feel more aligned to your gender and can make you feel more at peace. However, It does not act like an anti depressant to those who are suffering greatly.

QuoteSince I transitioned, I got to know many transgirls personally through lectures and speaking at UPenn's Transgender Day of Remembrence. I can tell you for a FACT that there are a lot of disturbed people out there who say they are trans. Now I will never question their sincerity and their belief that they are trans (because I am not trained nor do I have a moral authority to do so), but that does not negate the fact that some girls I have met personally is disturbed in one form or another.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider disturbed?


I'm not 24/7 suicidal over my body, nor am I 24/7 dysphoric. Although a lot of people make it seem like this is a requirement of HRT. The thought that HRT is in the future is generally enough to make me feel okay. I don't really mind how long it takes, so long as it isn't longer than a year.

Quote from: Silas on July 24, 2011, 12:54:52 PM
Out of curiosity, what would you consider disturbed?

When I state "disturbed" i am talking about people suffering from multiple personality disorders, body dysmorphic disorder, paranoia, histrionic personality disorder.

Multiple Personality Disorder: where they have many types of personalities. There is a cisgendered girl i met at a church i visited a few times. She had three personalities. One was herself (she is 29), the other was a 7 year old girl, and the other was a 30 year old man. Since she had the man as a personality, she tried to get on hrt and transition. her therapist would not allow her stating that her "other two personalities" would protest.

Body Dysmorphic Disorder: where they cannot stand their bodies. They would classify themselves as ogres or trolls or a blight or a scare to young children when they look fine. Some feel that changing their bodies can alleviate the symptoms so many will pursue plastic surgery, masks, changing of genders, etc etc.

Histrionic Personality Disorder: a disorder where the person will go to extremes to become the center for attention. Whether it is faking a deadly cancer, changing genders, wearing fraudulent high ranking military uniforms and medals, or harming someone else.

This is what i meant by it would be highly immoral and unethical for therapists to start prescribing hrt on day one. The more responsible thing for a therapist to do is to make sure you are trans first by crossing out any other possibilities.