I read a very interesting article in the weekend magazine in regards to how, and if access to porn is changing how men perceive woman.

It took the premise that access to any sort of porn is freely available on the internet and that men (mainly) are consumed by it. This exposure to hardcore porn has made men no longer interested in real sex, but are consumed by porn sex. It then gave some (weak) examples of Sexual Attention Deficit Disorder (SADD, naturally Of men who cannot have sexual intercourse without believing or fantasising they are in a porn scene.

OK there was a lot of stupid writing. Firstly the evidence trail is weak and is based on assumptions and personal belief. Points of view become facts, and belief principles become hypotheses. There is also no way of performing worthwhile science to establish facts, in my opinion.

But how does fit into our community?

I remember during the feminist years, adverts were rolled back to be 'non-sexist' as was language. This must be one of the most spectacular failures in social engineering I have seen. One glance at  music videos demonstrates the lack of sexism that has been achieved in our society
How are TG people perceived? As some glorious porn dream? From the article ; most men (sic) are reported to want nothing but sexual intercourse, in ever expanding porn conditions. They have a belief that woman are sex on legs and that penile penetration anywhere involves waves of orgasmic bliss.

I'm pretty sure this is not a belief among woman, including TG woman. But 'some'  males have porn fantasies that being transformed into a 'hot' bimbo will allow his every desire to be fulfilled.
This no doubt creates the perception that having intercourse with a woman is a good thing for her. Even if she says NO, her satisfaction is guaranteed. Naturally raping a TG woman is doing her a glorious favour. Her orgasmic bliss will be screamed out.

I did find some of the opinion fascinating. It was very naive, but at least it was open.

I do think that Western society has got more violent and that one of the reasons is the depiction of violence in TV, movies etc. I'm also at a point that one of the reasons for this is that the depiction of violence is unrealistic. This might sound a foolish argument. In games etc the person who is killed is recreated. In movies the warrior dies heroically. The brutality of even a simple beating is not understood. I can hit some one in the head and that's OK. I've seen Rambo have a bullet in his back and it's a '->-bleeped-<- and damn' condition.
I see people die.

No they haven't, a beating is brutal and life changing. A blow to the head can be death or brain damage. Being shot isn't a goddam, I lie low and reload. It's one of your major organs may have been destroyed, you have just started to die unless you get help.

Yes there are exceptions in real life.

But does access to gross porn involving humiliation, violence and degradation affect our society.

I would like to open the discussion.

BTW I have use TG as an encompassing term for the sake of the argument. I have very open beliefs. I have no interest in porn

Cindy

Trust you to open a Heinz can of worms Cindy! You must be feeling better.

The definition of pornography has changed over the last decade or so, with as far as I can tell, what was  extreme becoming commonplace.  That would have to indicate a certain amount of de-sensitisation and a need for more extreme stimulus to achieve the same gratification.
Coupled with the amount of violence in new areas of porn such as video games, I  can't help feeling that the likelihood of a small percentage of people being unable distinguish between reality and fantasy has increased.   
That is just my own suppositions, without any hard data, but no doubt it is out there somewhere.

Karen.

Ye Karen.

First premise : What is porn?

Possibly acts of sexual or non-sexual depictions are that are meant to titillate the observer?

Is there a difference between consensual and non-consensual porn. ? I think so!! But define those boundaries with Care.

So let us define one. The easy one: Paedophilia. It is totally abhorrent, it is evil. It is disgusting and it ruins the life of innocents. It is foul.

But seems to be very frequent with large secret organisations involved that have not only been implicated but proven to do despicable acts, including kidnap and prostitution of children. I weep for the children, and I pray that Maddie will be found safely.

When does this crime become acceptable?

When is porn not a crime?

She isn't a 14 yr old doing a BJ, she is an 18 yr old who looks like a 12 yr old.

So this is now acceptable porn? It is sexual fantasy, not pornography?

I realise and hope this debate can move into many areas of society, but lets keep to porn.

It might be a can of worms, at least I hope so.

So what is the difference between your 15 yr old son grabbing a 'mens magazine' - they are no longer porn., and masturbating to pictures of naked woman. And your 15 yr old daughter grabbing a picture Justin Wieber and doing the same.? Probably nothing. Both are healthy ways for teens to grow.  So this isn't porn. this is healthy exploration of life, and as parents we smile at how they hid the same sort of stuff.

So when is it porn?

Hugs, yes Karen I'm feeling a bit better. I hate to say it I have been bored. A bored Cindy is a very dangerous creature 


Cindy

To me, this article sounds sickening. It seems like it's making sexist, generalisations of men, because as we all know all men are sex obsessed and capable of rape.

As I understand it, it's not called being adventurous in the bed room, it's the man being perverse, forcing his fantasy on his female partner.

I'm sorry Angel maybe read my post fully? And think about it.

Cindy

Quote from: Angel On Acid on July 24, 2011, 06:07:55 AM
To me, this article sounds sickening. It seems like it's making sexist, generalisations of men, because as we all know all men are sex obsessed and capable of rape.

As I understand it, it's not called being adventurous in the bed room, it's the man being perverse, forcing his fantasy on his female partner.

Angel she didn't say ALL MEN.

Get honest though many men do think about sex every 6 seconds. I know i use to be one of them who had a male body and it wreaked havoc on my life and thinking. I hated it but many men do not. Many see it as their glory. On the other hand i have lived with young males who lived at a commune called twelve tribes and those young men had much self control. They also got married and never divorced. I am not saying any other way of living is wrong but i am saying people can and do live those kinds of lives and have great healthy relationships with their female partners. For heterosexual women these men are exactly what they seek.

Outside of that TT commune i do know some healthy couples (hetero) who have healthy lives as well. As we all know there are also some pretty evil things going on in society and in some religous communities. However, the TT has had some evil people join them and do bad things. That though isn't the norm there. Evil happens everywhere.

Openess to the truth is what is needed and that does have varying ways. Its when people hide things that people get hurt.  Many times its the youth who are not told about the choices in life and the world around them that get detoured into thinking their is only what they see around them.

Yes schools need to educate people about the many many choices in the world. These choices shouldn't be limited to just non religous ways. But they shouldn't block education in lgbt ways either.  Children (people) need to know and with openess and truth we can help point people to make free choices and not feel like they have to follow the crowd (peers).

As for porn it can be ok for some and also become a crazed lifestyle for others.

People need to know that what people see or experience isn't always healthy for everyone. 

I have noticed over the years that the majority of people who call for the end of porn and the punishment of prostitutes and Johns are middle aged women who have allot of free time on thier hands. They all have the same thing in common...they believe it is their right and duty to police the bedrooms of others.
Granted there are men who are involved in the 'shut down the porn industry' types but they invariably get discovered with a whore in a seedy motel.

So long as it is consentual and not dangerous people should have a right to make porn and distribute it to those who wish to see it.

My only issue with porn is that I am too old to sell sex!

I think that pornography needs to be broken down more for this to be debated.  Of course there are some that are very degrading to women, but there are other ones that involve a normal couple doing normal things.  I can't imagine that being any more harmful than anyone else having sex.

I find it mindblowing that it is completely ok to let little Tommy and Jane watch a TV program with explicit murder scenes and society as a whole shrugs and thinks nothing of it.
But if they should see pornography there is an inquisition.

So it is perfectly ok to let a child see murder, but not procreation.

Kinda makes me think we live in a very sick society.

Quote from: Lee on July 24, 2011, 10:59:05 AM
I think that pornography needs to be broken down more for this to be debated.  Of course there are some that are very degrading to women, but there are other ones that involve a normal couple doing normal things.  I can't imagine that being any more harmful than anyone else having sex.

I do agree with this take. It's like asking about the damage TV will cause. It's bit too broad.
If you can watch some stimulating porn with your lover and you both fine, who's to say that is bad?
In the olden days it was post cards or further back the Kamasutra (a tale of love) today it'd be porn no less.

Axelle

Quote from: cynthialee on July 24, 2011, 11:32:03 AM
I find it mindblowing that it is completely ok to let little Tommy and Jane watch a TV program with explicit murder scenes and society as a whole shrugs and thinks nothing of it.
But if they should see pornography there is an inquisition.

So it is perfectly ok to let a child see murder, but not procreation.

Kinda makes me think we live in a very sick society.

You sound almost exactly like my mother. 

QuoteIf you take a good, hard look at the American public in particular, you will see that a good portion of them are complete idiots. Sure, not EVERYONE is like this (and be thankful for that) but there a lot of people that are as dumb as dir

And the least intelligent have the most babies....Scary!

My experience with porn started when I was in my mid teens.  My friend had a 8mm film that he "borrowed" from his dad.  It was in B&W and no sound but it sure was exciting to watch.  When I got old enough I remember going to XXX rated movies.  The first few times I would close my eyes when ever there was a cum shot cause it was soo gross.  Now days I have to fast forward to it cause I can't wait for it.  Without a doubt you become desensitize over time and it takes more or better to get the same excitement.  I don't know if it fuels my fantasies but real sex is never as good as it is in my fantasies.

On the whole I think porn is fine.  There will be a certain number of people that get addicted to it or become perverted by it.  Most people will just enjoy it.  Use it to enhance their own sex lives.  If you haven't noticed there are a lot of couples posting their own videos on the internet.  Sex is a good thing.  Let's take it away from the creepy guys in the trench coats and get out in the open.  I don't believe it will make the more perverse fetishes more acceptable.  I have looked at a lot of porn and there are a lot of things I would never watch.

Also welcome to web commerce. ~80% of websites are actually porn sites (don't think it has change recently, why should it?) --- and all make good money.

Axelle
PS: if being younger I can just feel the temptation, and if only to butter on my bread

I like some rather raunchy porn, but when I have sex it is relativly vanilla. So I don't think that porn desensitises and makes all people require kinkier and kinker to get off. That is just a character flaw of some people.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 24, 2011, 11:32:03 AM
I find it mindblowing that it is completely ok to let little Tommy and Jane watch a TV program with explicit murder scenes and society as a whole shrugs and thinks nothing of it.
But if they should see pornography there is an inquisition.

So it is perfectly ok to let a child see murder, but not procreation.

Kinda makes me think we live in a very sick society.

little Tommy and Jane is wathing a TV program that has acted out violence.  Porn is real sex.

little Tommy and Jane can watch acted out sex in MANY movies which is different than a full blown close up of a man ejaculating in a woman's face.

I have three children of my own. I do not let them watch violent movies and hell would freeze over and the world gone to hell before I let my children watch porn. Porn isn't "The Princess Bride of Procreation."

The murders might be fake and the cumshot might be real but...
The subconscious does not know the diferance between a simulated murder that is very grafic and a real murder.
I saw Psycho long before I ever saw porn. At about 12.
I remember vividly the 'murder' in the movie. For years I took a chair into the bathroom to wedge it under the door knob whenever I took a shower.
I can't actually remember a thing about the movie the first time I saw porn at about 15 other than the fact I was watching porn. Nothing about the actors or the supposed story line. Not even the sex acts.
Which one had a greater impact on my psyche?

Quote from: Annah on July 24, 2011, 12:26:24 PM
I have three children of my own. I do not let them watch violent movies and hell would freeze over and the world gone to hell before I let my children watch porn. Porn isn't "The Princess Bride of Procreation."

DITTO i have 2 and they don't barely know there is such a thing as porn and all TV is monitored and the 19 yr old still doesn't even want to see it as he knows it made my life a living hell as i have told him in emails recently.. yes porn can really ruin a persons life as it did mine and that made transitioning and getting rid of any testosterone such a wonderful justification for starting and going so fast thru transition.

Porn for me separated reality from fantasy and i spent most of my life in fantasy which was a lonely place and the people who liked porn that i did meet made sex so cheap for me that they scared me away from any human contact sexually which was in a way a good thing for me.. Yes porn was a terrible thing for me.. i was introduced to it with old fashioned smoker tapes my older brother use to watch and playboys my other older brother left around.. i was barely 8 yrs old and it ruined my life until i finally transitioned and found the true me

I find it mindblowing that it is completely ok to let little Tommy and Jane watch a TV program with explicit murder scenes and society as a whole shrugs and thinks nothing of it.   But if they should see pornography there is an inquisition.
I'm with you there.  I got a lot of grief from other parents and non-parents when I told them I'd much rather my sons were watching Deep Throat than Rambo.  The acting is better if nothing else.  But, if both of these are some sort of 'projection fantasy' I'd much rather my boys were fantasizing about getting some awesome head than killing people with their bare hands.  Hopefully at some point they would have sex, I would hope and pray that they never have to kill anyone.


This exposure to hardcore porn has made men no longer interested in real sex
I doubt that.  First of all, masturbation is real sex, it's just not sex with another person.  Second, I suppose that after you watch a couple volumes of The Best Blow-Jobs in the World it is possible that you find out that what up to that point had seemed like a pretty good BJ, turned out to be a rather weak and insincere effort.  The best use of porn is as a real life 'how-to' about something that almost no one ever teaches you.


between your 15 yr old son grabbing a 'mens magazine' - they are no longer porn., and masturbating to pictures of naked woman.
All I had was the lingerie section of the Sears catalog.  Currently I'd trade almost all the porn in the world^* for the complete collection of Victoria's Secret catalogs.



* - minus the Traci Lords movies.

Quote from: Cindy James on July 24, 2011, 06:52:11 AM
I'm sorry Angel maybe read my post fully? And think about it.

Cindy

I'm sorry that you think I didn't read your post - I did. It wasn't meant to be a dig at your or your topic of converation. I'm just commenting on the tone of the article. I mean look at this:

QuoteFrom the article ; most men (sic) are reported to want nothing but sexual intercourse, in ever expanding porn conditions. They have a belief that woman are sex on legs and that penile penetration anywhere involves waves of orgasmic bliss.

Anyway, back on topic:

QuoteI find it mindblowing that it is completely ok to let little Tommy and Jane watch a TV program with explicit murder scenes and society as a whole shrugs and thinks nothing of it.
But if they should see pornography there is an inquisition.

So it is perfectly ok to let a child see murder, but not procreation.

Kinda makes me think we live in a very sick society.

I don't really agree with is. Violence is more natural to children than sex - they argue , have fights in playgrounds, among other things. Yeah this is a stretch from watching someone die in a film, but sex doesn't come into their life untill way later.

i prefer drawn porn. it usually has some kind of story that lets me identify with some of the characters, or at least enjoy the quirks in their personalities (even when they're very generative). and if there is no background story at all, it's usually because the characters are from another more well known series

there are lots of things i wouldn't ever want to see in real porn or sexual situations irl, but don't mind in drawn porn. extreme violence is one thing, underage individuals is another. maybe not something i should be too open about..? but most people who like things like these in drawn porn still know the difference between fantasy and reality, and wouldn't wanna cross any borders


so what then about real porn.. it's hard to believe that (legal) porn makes anyone bad unless their core was already rotten, and then it would only be a matter of time before they went totally bad anyway. anyone should get to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't violate any real living person's rights. computer nerds are supposedly better in bed than soccer players. i don't know what that says about the relation between porn-watching and a healthy interest in having sex with another person