okay^^ I wanted to ask this for a time and I think this is the place to do it.

I meet people who are gender-queer and such thing, or just gender confussed and not sure what gender they are and so on.
one of my gender-queer people are actually my friend and we also hang out pretty much together, and another one are also a dear person of mine. however I never know how to refern people who are like in the middle team without hurting someones felling.

as transexual it easy, you just refern them as the gender they see themself as, but if people feel like they got 2 gender or something I am not sure what to say, and I know how annoying it can be to get your pronoucing wrongs...
should I say he or her? neither? switch? some of my friends tend to switch between "he and her" it gets me alittle confussed somethimes..

what do you think is best?
or what you you prefern yourself?
is there some kind of "golden rule" like for transexuals ftm would pretty much always prefern being called "he" and mtf would like "she" who is not to insult. (havent heard some who didnt, well at least I dont know anyone who didnt but there might be?)

sorry if I sound very amature.

There are gender neutral ones, Sie/Hier (or summink like that) they are ugly, I am not a fan.
My friends tend to call me he because I look like one, others call me her and some switch - all are false, but it's not really a problem.
Many use they, that is also false but not a problem.

Personally, I think this thorny issue is what names were invented for.

myself, I could care less. But I present male so it is naturally male terms. It's only the few that really know me, and I think they depend on my moods or actions somewhat.

It's not something that anyone should let bother them. Difficult to do in some situations, but then you should just ignore them.

Sometimes my brain scrambles up what people are saying to me. At that point, just trying to figure them out is more important.
In fact I think I'm so bored with conversations, just trying to nicely answer them is more important. They already bore me, so they're not going to piss me off by stumbling around for the proper word to use.

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 25, 2011, 06:50:43 PM
There are gender neutral ones, Sie/Hier (or summink like that) they are ugly, I am not a fan.
My friends tend to call me he because I look like one, others call me her and some switch - all are false, but it's not really a problem.
Many use they, that is also false but not a problem.

Personally, I think this thorny issue is what names were invented for.

hm it just we dont really got gender neutrals pronoucing in my country only "it" "you" "they" but they can seam akward to use once in a while,
I try ignoring gender pronoucing and just saying the name,
but in some sentence it just sound really akward and out of gramma.

What language do you use where you live? (if I might ask..)
In english I often just use "E" when referring to someone of unknown (to me) gender. So rather than He/She...see, they both end in "e" so when I use that...people often tend to hear what they expect to hear and assume they didn't hear the part of the word I've just (actively) dropped.

Generally, asking the person whom your talking to/about what pronouns they'd like is the most kind thing one can do. I think this is the golden rule of androgyns...personally. To be asked, when we're NEVER asked...well...that alone would brighten my day right up!! Though I do believe Pica to be correct. Most folks just stick with their birth gender pronouns as it's easier.

I like ze/hir set of pronouns and we use them around here with relative ease. Or I'll switch when referring to some people I know. She in this sentence, he in the next sentence...and so on.

I do that sound trick too.
For ex, in spanish male words tend to end in -o and female words end in -a
for ex, andrógino and andrógina. So I sometimes pronounce "androgine" with the e pronounced in a way which sounds half "o" and half "a".

Also, for androgynes I've found it's fun to call them by the gender opposite they're presenting (so you call a girl looking androgyne, a he)

... Yeah, just use whatever. If they make a face as if they didn't like it, just change the pronoun.

Another thing you can do is to make a random choice, like throw a coin or whatever. Tails is "she", and if it falls standing it's both.

Most call me she, but I want them to use he. Just my personal preference.

I'm of the opinion that whatever refers to me becomes androgyne by the act of referring to me.

There isn't really a universal answer.  I think it is up to individual androgynes to (a) make their wishes known, and (b) take it in stride if someone happens to get it wrong.  Unless they're doing it on purpose just to be jerks, of course.

Quote from: Sevan on July 25, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
What language do you use where you live? (if I might ask..)
In english I often just use "E" when referring to someone of unknown (to me) gender. So rather than He/She...see, they both end in "e" so when I use that...people often tend to hear what they expect to hear and assume they didn't hear the part of the word I've just (actively) dropped.

Generally, asking the person whom your talking to/about what pronouns they'd like is the most kind thing one can do. I think this is the golden rule of androgyns...personally. To be asked, when we're NEVER asked...well...that alone would brighten my day right up!! Though I do believe Pica to be correct. Most folks just stick with their birth gender pronouns as it's easier.

I like ze/hir set of pronouns and we use them around here with relative ease. Or I'll switch when referring to some people I know. She in this sentence, he in the next sentence...and so on.

I use danish, its pretty simulary to english in the pronoucing so we got the same words like "he,she" "him/her"
people can say "it" but it only goes for babys,animals, or things(however we somethimes use "it" for fun)
so there not really a gender neutral word who could be use.
they got a gender neutral one in norway, who on the newspaper got translated to  "hen" (ham=he,hende=her,hen,?)
but I never seen it been used exept the fact from the newspaper I read where they translated the genderneutral word they used to raise there baby.

I guess I should just ask and not think so much about it,
---
Zaida; hmm thats interesting, I know a person speaking spanish so I have heard the gender thing before, never crossed my mind you could mix it like that.
----

thanks so far for all the feedbacks.

Asking is usually a good choice as long as you're polite about it. Also if you do happen to get it wrong, they'll probably correct you and then you'll know. It's not as big a deal as you think. Most people won't scream at you for getting it wrong.

I like to use names. You can't go wrong if you call someone their name.

Quote from: Pharaun on July 30, 2011, 11:39:30 PM
I like to use names. You can't go wrong if you call someone their name.

If you do this for everyone, it's one thing. If you only do it for people you think might be on the trans* spectrum, it feels...othering.

I suspect most androgynes wouldn't mind given the general awkwardness of pronouns for them. But some of us who are binary can look androgynous, so it's best to ask first if you're unsure, rather than automatically treating us as 'other' just because we look different.

Quote from: kyril on July 31, 2011, 12:04:58 AM
If you do this for everyone, it's one thing. If you only do it for people you think might be on the trans* spectrum, it feels...othering.

I suspect most androgynes wouldn't mind given the general awkwardness of pronouns for them. But some of us who are binary can look androgynous, so it's best to ask first if you're unsure, rather than automatically treating us as 'other' just because we look different.

I use names for everyone, well I don't because I can't remember them - I use a rough approximation of names for everyone.

I'm really bad at remembering names.  Doesn't matter if I've worked with the person for 10 years, my recall may still be slow or nonexistent...

Quote from: foosnark on July 31, 2011, 06:13:02 AM
I'm really bad at remembering names.  Doesn't matter if I've worked with the person for 10 years, my recall may still be slow or nonexistent...

I like changing peoples name. I know a girl named Paola, who is like a tomboy or so. I call her Pablita (Pablo is a male name).

I think the best option here is to just ask people nicely what their preferred pronouns are. Even though I go by 'she/her', the pronouns of my assigned gender, it makes me feel really good when someone asks. It's validating.

Pronouns are tricky when asked I tell people I prefer zee or they but if that is too weird for them I don't mind she
but in reality I just don't like being assumed to being Male and he when people who know I'm differently gendered  use male terms in general it really pisses me off.  I do a lot to present as "other" so being called a man can realy hurt I love being asked what I prefer as a pronoun even if I get a WtF look when I give "other" gender pronouns as my  preferance. In most of my life people assume I'm Male and I don't correct them at other times people assume I Identify as Female so they almost ballance themselves out. 

I think one can avoid the "he" or "she" issue by calling someone by name in place of it. Instead of he/she is going with me to town, Say "Name here" is going.
If its the him or her thing, that can easily be said with we're etc. or I'll walk with them to town.

Easy shift without sounding unnatural.