I come to Susan's because as a scientists (biomedical area) i thought I could contribute to inform the forum on the advances in unraveling the underlying biological causes of GID. To my surprise evidence on the biological origins of GID was not welcome or plain rejected, by most of the posting people.

I also come to Susan's to gather advice and knowledge on the art of transitioning from more experienced people. I have not been disappointed in this front. I am greatfull to all who have share there experiences and knowledge.

As in any other forum controversial topics, such as prostitution, abortion, entitlements, religious and political beliefs do arise. I like everbody else have my opinions and beliefs which are a product of my education and experiences. I pride myself of being tolerant, meaning I am willing to listen and respect the belief of others. However, when I do not agree, I will not keep silent and I will post y discent opinion.

My political, religious, ethical, moral, philosophical narrative are diametrical opposed to those sponsored by communists, anarchist, socialists, and far-left liberals.  I have, in several different posts, debated and argue my point of views. But is seems my postion is that of a minority. Is that the case? Is this forum mostly populated by communists, anarchist, socialists, and far-left liberals? Is there a "silent majority" out there?

In just about any post there is a 1:50 or more ratio of people who post versus people who just read. Please I urge to participate more, express you views.

Kate D

I am about as liberal as you can get when it comes to religion, social justices, and politics. I go to a pretty darn liberal Seminary too. But liberal and conservative is truly in the eye of the beholder. For example, what you may see as overly liberal form your position in regards to me, others may find me a little more conservative.

However, being liberal or progressive or whatever you wanna call it and being conservative or fundamentalist or whatever you want to call it is a mutual respect for each other.

Know that what you may find as immoral or vile I may find as natural and normal. What I may find as normal you may find as unacceptable or what you may find as acceptable, I may find as too restrictive, confining, or the chaining up certain freedoms.

But the most important respect is for each other. Seeing you call progressive minded people "mostly populated by communists, anarchist," can be seen as very offensive. From my experiences as both being a conservative and now a liberal, I find liberal people to have more personal freedoms and promote universal freedoms than conservatives do. Now, of course, this is only my opinion, but calling people who disagree with your beliefs as anarchist and communist is a little extreme. Sounds very MacArthur-esque.

The biggest and most important aspect of all of this is not to attack another person for a difference of beliefs.

And to be honest, conservative people are my biggest weakness and admitally, it is a prejudice I do have. I have lost my three children because of conservative beliefs. I was not good enough for my children to my ex under "the eyes of Almighty God" and she created an elaborate story and did unspeakable things in the name of her religion. I wont go into detail about it, but it has darkened my heart. I also lost my position in a church for coming out as a Transgender. The church promoted love, unity, and family style atmosphere...until you do something they do not like and they remove you like a country club member. However, my liberal seminary is helping me heal from those wounds. I never look at a conservative person in spite but I am cautious whenever someone starts to "preach" morals based on their own belief system and tries to make it universal and applicable to everyone.

Also, about bio testing for trans issues: i can certainly see the pros and cons. That subject of proving trans through medical and bio interventions is like a double bladed sword. A proficient user can use it very well but it can come back and injure the user if he or she is not careful when swinging it. For example, what if they do have medical and bio technologies to prove transsexualism and you take this test and it comes out that you aren't trans? What will happen?

For me, I believe gender transcends far beyond the medical complexities of our bodies. I believe it is spirit deep and to the point where no medical testing can effectively measure. I am not wholefully against medical proof but I can certainly see abuses that would inherit from it.

I'm one of those who probably COULD post more, but tend not to for some of the reasons discussed already.  I do not look at the world through rose-colored glasses (or even burnt orange glasses) and am never going to be confused with the portion of the population oft-termed as liberal.  I often describe myself as a politician's worst nightmare because I look at issues...fiscally conservative and somewhat socially liberal tend to put me into a moderate camp where I don't subscribe to ANY party or ideologic politics. 

However, I don't buy into the efforts some want to make to socially deconstruct the world around us...and that unfortunately is what too many of the arguments around here tend to devolve into.  And as has been seen on more than one occasion, that is when the backhanded personal attacks tend to come out from those that think the government owes them some sort of legislative change for every perceived slight they faced in their lives...

I am called a communists, anarchist, socialist "bed wetting liberal" regularly by some people because I haven't drank the tea party's koolaide. To a far left wing liberal, I am a conservative bigot who wants to see the poor and children stave to death. So I guess it depends where you are standing how others appear to you?

As far as the biology of transgender, I find it interesting but by the same token I don't believe this is something that you can medically test either with any accuracy. Nor would I allow myself to be "tested", I already know I am. I personally don't feel a need for a medical excuse for being transgendered, just as I don't think someone who is Gay needs a reason to be Gay. It just is and people are going to have to deal with it.

Hello Kate,
you ask questions --- you'll get answers.
And I'm sure you will not like some of them.

The 3 previous posts try to answer most rationally and should be applauded for that. And more so, for what Annah had to say in quite some detail.
That I think should answer a good part of your query.

There is another part and I will try to address that.
It is to do, and at least as you often come across, with an perceived attitude of entitlement.
You seem often if not always bristling with righteous indignation, and this does not go down well.
Whether it be in a forum or that be in a meeting, being too confrontational WITH OUT LEAVING OPEN SOME BACK DOOR, makes you seem harsh to the point of unloving, maybe even uncaring. Force-feeding your agenda.

Honey, you are asking for feedback and there you have some.
In fact I feel if you where always so sure of your position there'd be far less need to come across this "strong" and unyielding.

When I said attitude earlier on, this is the main issue in my perception - and not some silent majority, nor other politically motivated souls to the left, right or even middle ground.

"The way you shout into the forest, it will echo back to you". A German saying that holds true in my experience.

No need to be so tough around here, one can still make ones case --- and if it is not taken up? There may be more pressing interests for those that are presently posting. If folks are not wanting to post and just read --- so what. They may just want to "walk" before they "run" (post).

I do say the above with love, maybe tough-love but there you are.

Food for though...
Axelle

Kate, I'm glad that you express your views. Everyone has a right to express themselves. Keep on posting.                                                                                                                      Gennee

Quote from: kate durcal on August 09, 2011, 09:29:36 AM
My political, religious, ethical, moral, philosophical narrative are diametrical opposed to those sponsored by communists, anarchist, socialists, and far-left liberals.  I have, in several different posts, debated and argue my point of views. But is seems my postion is that of a minority. Is that the case? Is this forum mostly populated by communists, anarchist, socialists, and far-left liberals? Is there a "silent majority" out there?

-_-

If your views are "diametrical opposed" to the groups you list, that makes you a far right conservative. I won't list any of the derogatory names that are the right-wing equivalents of the derogatory left-wing names you used. I don't like extremists on either end of the spectrum. They can't see the world from anywhere but a distorted perspective. I am not a communist, anarchist, socialist or a far-left liberal, but I don't agree with you either.

Quote from: Axélle on August 09, 2011, 11:14:17 AM
You seem often if not always bristling with righteous indignation, and this does not go down well.

Truth.

Understand that in your third post at Susans, you were already saying that gender identity is all in our heads. And in your fifth post you were already quoting the Bible. That sets a tone that doesn't go down well here. I'm sorry but believing I should have been born a girl is not a dilution like believing I'm Napoleon (as you said in one of your posts).

I would put myself in the far left, a definite supporter of socialism, and I think that class is probably the most important problem facing society. I highly doubt I am in the majority here, or anywhere else for that matter, I mean, people in the centre are usually the ones who are the majority, the people both extremes of politics like to ignore or chastise as being not with us, therefore against us. So, if your views are far right, you will never really be in the majority either, the bulk of people are a bit apathetic and are gonna stay in their middleground.

That being said, express you dissent all you want, just now that if you aren't being tactful about it you will make people mad. Also, I rarely go into my political views on susans, at least not too in depth, the way I see it, arguing politics or religion on the internet, just isn't that worthwhile, but sharing support and information is, and that is the reason why I am here.

Quote from: Hikari on August 09, 2011, 04:43:43 PM
Also, I rarely go into my political views on susans, at least not too in depth, the way I see it, arguing politics or religion on the internet, just isn't that worthwhile,

Heck, it isn't worthwhile in any setting.

As a divinity student I only discuss religious matters in four places:

1. My Seminary
2. My Coven
3. My church I intern for
4. A forum designed for religious conversation

When it comes to religionin other places, I only discuss it whenever someone asks me too and even then I show the upmost respect to other religions. Which isn't hard for me since I believe every religion has a destination of wanting to find a truth in their lives.

When it comes to politics, I keep that purely to myself or to a group of people that I know share the same issues I do.

When it comes to social issues, I am left as I stated before but i never try to force my belief as being the only way as their are multiple correct paths. It reminds me of religious exclusiveness whenever someone tries to make it sound like their way or the highway (like....my way is right....everyone else who is wrong will go to hell). That's called prosyletization and that makes my skin crawl.

I don't mind hearing a wide range of opinions. I am even open to listening to arguments as to why some people think being transsexual is wrong, or unnatural (and what's wrong with being unnatural).

But as Annah said, respect for each other is very important. If I disagree with someone, I don't try to attack as aggressively as I can. I listen and, more than just listening, I consider from their point of view why they think their opinion is right. And if I am truly convinced that what they say is right more than what I thought, I would change my opinion on that matter (and I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong in that matter—I'm not a politician so I don't have to worry about being a flip-flop). If I don't agree, I try to explain nicely the precise things I don't agree with, if they are nice to me too and willing to discuss it openly.

I do find flaws with capitalism and even democracy, but I think they are the best systems the human society has come up with at this point in time. I imagine that one day a better system will be developed, though I can't imagine what.

This is a forum and forums are usually filled with opinions.  And that's fine.  It's what most conversations are all about.  If we never stated our opinion, this world would be pretty quiet.  But when someone disagrees with the opinion of another and says "you're wrong", things can get heated.  And I've seen a lot of people leave here because they took the opinion of others personally.

So, when posting, try to state things in such a way as to express this is just your opinion.  And calling someone an idiot is not what I'm talking about.

When reading, know that you are reading is just someone's opinion and in no way defines you.  Sticks and stones.

If we all did just those two things, I think there would be a lot less emotions flaring and feelings hurt.  But that's just my opinion.

Nothing new Ladies, I heard from you all before, I was hopping to hear from people who seldomly or never post, some fresh voices.

Nevertheless I take all your points homes -eventhough I did nit aks for a personal critique-, specially Axelle's. I could elaborate why I come brstling, but this thread is not about me (eventhough the posts have centerd around me); it is about hearing what other conservative people have to say (these are what I call the silent majority), and does not mean I do not want to hear about what the liberals have to say.

Kate D

I do not like being told that I am a pervert or lacking in character when I disagree with certain parties.

Personaly I think things were going real well around here until we started getting a few loud individuals who have diferant opinions and politics than most of us here posting in almost every thread that could be considered sensitive.
Makes me almost wonder if we are being attacked from within....

Every user is allowed to have their own opinions about politics (and other issues) we don't have to agree.  No one should be berated because of their beliefs and no one should try to "force" their beliefs on others.

Lets slow this down a bit.

...she asked us......

Quote from: cynthialee on August 09, 2011, 06:53:47 PM
Makes me almost wonder if we are being attacked from within....

Assuming the person in question is not really a poser.

My views seem to be a mix of those considered "liberal" and "conservative". I guess it's fair to say I'm a socialist, though most people I talk to make the mistake of thinking that socialism is a governmental system when it is really an economic system. To my knowledge a democratic socialist nation has never existed in human history. I actually wouldn't even mind capitalism though if our (speaking from the USA) capitalist system weren't so rigged. I don't like seeing American jobs given to foreigners over citizens, which seems to be a more conservative viewpoint. Most progressives seem to want to let the whole world in when all the people already here are not taken care of. I also believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment, although I'm too poor to own gun myself. I primarily associate with progressives because they seem to be (generally speaking) the only ones who actually believe in freedom and equality. I am a pretty religious person, though not a Christian, but I certainly don't think that everyone should have to follow what I believe.

As far as the biology of this condition, I'm interested in whatever treatments can increase the compatibility of this body, though at present they are all prohibitively expensive. I don't really care about it beyond that, biology/medicine just isn't my area of expertise or even much interest. I've always been a physics and software kind of person. I guess some of this is religious belief that cannot be proven physically, but no medical test on this body can determine anything about me because this flesh is not me, it is just a biological system that I happen to be plugged into during this life.

So I guess whether I'm "conservative" or "liberal" depends on the issue in question. Maybe that makes me an independent.

Well Kate, I am as Conservative as you'll find here on a lot of topics, without veering into extremist territory. I vote Liberal all the way, unless I like the local National Party candidate.
  I have stated here previously, half in jest, that I think your whole 1776 republic was a bad idea anyway.  You'd be a lot better off with a Constitutional Monarchy. Then you'd have real Conservatives, not the  ignorant neo-Nazi rabble that seems to pass for such.
If you are a scientist then you should be prepared to accept new ideas once they have been subjected to proper scrutiny.   Maybe you would feel you are received better if you could put up some informative,straightforward,  factual posts that would help those looking for information .

Karen.

Sadly I think Kate has left the building.

As ex staff can I say that the site goes up and down, there are some very abusive people and  there are trolls. But there are lots of people who want robust discussion. Nothing wrong with that. But if you start to say things that will get you into trouble in the local bar, why say it here? You will get abuse and Mods will throw you out.

There are many fascinating people here, some beginning their lives, some travelling and some enjoying their fruits. Enjoy them.

I love a good discussion, but good discussions are not clouded by emotion.

Read your post before you send it. Would you say that to a friend or to a group of people in the bar?

If not don't post it here.

Geez Karen, you could end up premier of Tas

Hugs

Cindy

True. Having a mature debate means allowing the other person to put their point of view, and treating them with respect, even when you disagree. It also means being mature enough to not resort to trying to pass off as fact something which is an opinion.  From this distance it seems to me that the US Tea Party resort to that far too often.

Hmm,scrap  the sales tax on local wine, compulsory wine tasting lessons in school, footpath motorcycle parking, massive investment in oyster and scallop farms,  and PUT UP SOME DECENT STREET SIGNS SO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE. That should just about do it!
Karen.