I have to admit Kat that you are stretching here,


Karen I went to a CB school. 14 years is not enough.

I'm sure there are good CBs, never met them. But I gave several orgasms all before I knew what they were. I was often the teachers 'pet'  I was a very cute little girl/boy and they just used to move me up and down their lap. Never knew, but I just felt dirty, and I did not want to sit on teachers lap.


I do not have a religion, but if I did it would be a hell where these people just scream.
And I do forgive them, because I cannot take what they did to me in my life.
I am stronger, but I didn't need the lessons.

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on August 08, 2011, 03:41:04 AM
- Having sex with your daughter in law. (Lev 20:30)
- Incest. (Lev 20:17)[5]

However, sometimes God commands you and your sister to get your dad drunk on succeeding nights and sleep with him. See Lot.

They haven't been popular in Ballarat for few years now. Not the first one to take a holiday in a bluestone resort either.
As regards those who want to enforce Deuteronomical laws, I'd just ask them when they are going to get circumcised. I hate hypocrites.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on August 08, 2011, 04:41:59 AM
As the offences you have quoted are from the Old Testament, they do not apply to Christians, Tekla.  Anyone who tries to apply them or use them as justification has missed the point of  Jesus' mission.   

As for the penalty for what amounts to corrupting children, I take it as being a warning that it is one of the most serious crimes.  Pity the member of the Christian Brothers who got 14 years in Ballarat today didn't listen, for the sake of all his victims. Hypocrisy is the worst sin there is, in my book.

Karen.

Indeed. The incredably selective and often fabricated citing of OT laws by those in the US, especially, claiming they are supporting their religion instead of admitting they are simply frightend political types is perhaps most evidenct in these sort of examples.

As for the millstone claim, Jesus said that anyone who corrupts the mind of a child, it would be as if they had put a mill stone around their necks and cast themselves into the deepest ocean. (Or words to that effect). I suspect that this was another of Jesus metaphores, expressing that his attitude to child abuse was the same as almost every adult who ever lived.

I also believe, from when I looked at the culture of Jews of that period, they had an obscession with what happened to their bodies after death. It's been a long time so if I'm mistaken, I hope someone more knowlegable will correct me. But I think they believed that, at resurection, they would be raised up from the ground. Since the deepest ocean would have been thought of as the most remote place of all, they would, presumably be raised last.

Those deemed rightious would be burried on the Mount of Olives since this was believed to be the place where the final coming would take place, so anyone burried there would be raised first.

Criminals and some others, tended to have their bodies cast onto, what was at that time, the city dump of Jeursalem, called Gehenna. There were a number of references to Gehenna made in the Gospels, which, in most English translations of the Bible, were changed to Hell. Hence the myth of the destination of hell for sinners which was subsequently used by many since to scare people.

While I personally wouldn't support the idea of killing someone, I do know of quite a number of otherwise decent people who would say that being drowned is a bit too easy for anyone who corrupts a child in that way.

QuoteMcCormack and Horton told the Blade that a sermon delivered by Rev. A.W. Montgomery Sr., pastor of Agape Missionary Baptist Church in Suitland, Md., who presided over the funeral service, offended many of those in attendance, including many of Mclean's transgender friends.

At least his church is properly named.  He leaves everyone's mouth agape.

QuoteIn a telephone interview on Wednesday, Montgomery disputed claims that his remarks at the service were disrespectful or disparaging toward Lashai Mclean or the transgender community.

"My perception of some things is strictly from the perception of the Bible," he said. "Sin is sin is sin. I don't care who you are. There's no perfect person on this planet. Whether you're the pope or the poorest person, all of us sin. So my remarks would never be disparaging at all. I preached the Gospel. I don't think I was harsh."

We humans have a long history of forgiving people who use the Bible to justify their hatred and prejudice.  That's why we keep seeing stuff like this.

We humans have a long history of forgiving people who use the Bible to justify their hatred and prejudice.

As opposed to it's other great use, which is as a doorstop.  Look, I'm not the villian here, had they asked me I would have had the entire situation voided from the get go buy skipping the entire funeral scene altogether - but these here, these are your coreligionists, not mine.  But taking individual responsibility has never been the faiths strong point - why not just tell me that the devil made him do it?  Ain't that the great out for Christians' personal responsibility?

It's all so disheartening.

I got thrown out of a ministry many years ago and it taught me one major lesson.
TOO MANY HUMANS CLAIMING TO HAVE A DIRECT WIRE TO THE ALMIGHTY.

So all they say is now coming directly and wholly inspired by the Holy Spirit. My foot in a fish can!

Ouch,
Axelle

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 05, 2011, 05:36:31 PM
I'm in the UK and I have seen very little of that kind of bigotry. I've seen arguments within churches over their position but I have seen people on both sides of the fence willing to help people in need.

I think that's partly a result of historical timing. The conservative christian movement is much younger in the United States and hasn't died out yet like it has in Europe. Right now the center of christian bigotry is the U. S., but it's quickly moving to Africa, because Americans have been exporting it over their for the last 50 years.

Quote from: tekla on August 07, 2011, 01:47:03 PM
Even if it were, what he is claimed to have said amounted to, at the very least, mitigation.

When religions no longer dictate what is right and wrong, holy and sin - then pretty much you're left with coffee, doughnuts and building that's really expensive to heat.

I know that's one way to look at it, but there is another. Instead of dictating right and wrong, religions can properly work to help the poor, the hungry, and the oppressed. IF religious people would only stop and think... There are one or two verses in the Bible that touch on GLBT questions; there are hundreds that talk about taking care of the oppressed. Where does their effort lie?

Psalm 41:1-2
Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.

Proverbs 22:9
A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.

Proverbs 31:8-9
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

Isaiah 58:6-7;10
If you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday.

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

Luke 14:13-14
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

It is now common knowledge among those who know what is real and what is not that the new mission field is not in a third world country-it is in the good old USA!
I wholeheartedly agree the Mainstream American Christians or should I say-Bigots-haven't got a clue about how to listen to the Holy Spirit. But they will tell you they can and some put on a good show for their audiences all the while raking in huge sums of money in the process. At times the thought makes me sick to my stomach but as there is plenty of work to do-I will go to work even if what I do might seem to some as very little. I am certain that the 'little' I can do will mean alot to someone who needs it! So that is all the justification I need to continue.

"Little is much if God is in it"
Randi

Deep Throat: Follow the money.
Bob Woodward: What do you mean? Where?
Deep Throat: Oh, I can't tell you that.
Bob Woodward: But you could tell me that.
Deep Throat: No, I have to do this my way. You tell me what you know, and I'll confirm. I'll keep you in the right direction if I can, but that's all. Just... follow the money.

It was true then.  It's true now.  Just follow the money. 

Of the 300 people who attended the funeral, only 1/3 walked out.  The preacher was speaking to the 200 who stayed and who will put money in the collection basket in the future.

Can I have an "AMEN" for Sister Julie!

tax free, tax free
You'll do well in this land of
Snakebite evangelists and racketeers
You could get to be
A big wig financier
Land of snap decisions
Land of short attention spans

          - Joni Mitchell

Quote from: Randi on August 08, 2011, 05:46:54 PM
the Mainstream American Christians or should I say-Bigots-

Let me correct the technical terminology. "Mainstream" churches are the large, liberal denominations. The ones you are thinking of are labeled "conservative" rather than "mainstream." "Conservatives" hate "mainstream" churches vocally.

I think I would have stood up and said VERY loudly "WTF are you doing insulting this dead woman? Did you believe Jesus would say something like that over a dead body?"

Quote from: tekla on August 07, 2011, 01:47:03 PM
Even if it were, what he is claimed to have said amounted to, at the very least, mitigation.

When religions no longer dictate what is right and wrong, holy and sin - then pretty much you're left with coffee, doughnuts and building that's really expensive to heat.

Well when certain people try to use religion for their OWN goals, then it's not about right and wrong. Unless of course you believe interracial marriage is a sacrilege? Not that long ago conservative religious people were fighting against that one. Note it would have lost the popular vote too but the Gov had the sense then to allow the supreme  court to rule. I see no difference in same sex marriage.

Quote from: Stephe on August 09, 2011, 02:06:32 PM
Well when certain people try to use religion for their OWN goals, then it's not about right and wrong.

Unless I completely misunderstand you, I don't see how it's possible to NOT use religion for one's own goals. That's why people invented religion (and other institutions) in the first place.

Quote from: Arch on August 09, 2011, 02:16:49 PM
Unless I completely misunderstand you, I don't see how it's possible to NOT use religion for one's own goals. That's why people invented religion (and other institutions) in the first place.

You're right, we are not supposed to "use religion" on other people at all. I use religion as a way to help myself without expecting others to believe what I do.

If people would only follow the VERY simple message "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and use that for a filter ...

Quote from: Stephe on August 09, 2011, 02:22:31 PM
If people would only follow the VERY simple message "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and use that for a filter ...

Never mind that such a mantra is arguably imposing one's belief upon others...while MOST religions have some variant of such a 'message,' not ALL of them do. 

Quote from: Ann Onymous on August 09, 2011, 02:25:03 PM
Never mind that such a mantra is arguably imposing one's belief upon others...while MOST religions have some variant of such a 'message,' not ALL of them do.

So you think that "mantra" is bad and hurts other people? I'm not aware of any religion that would stand on -treating others the way you would like to be treated- is a bad idea. Do you have some reference to the religions that oppose this?

A Buddhist monk stated he felt a better Golden Rule is "Do not do unto others that which you do not want done to you."  I think the intent was to eliminate the masochist type of person.

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 09, 2011, 10:55:52 PM
A Buddhist monk stated he felt a better Golden Rule is "Do not do unto others that which you do not want done to you."  I think the intent was to eliminate the masochist type of person.

I like it, thanks for posting that!