Here's how gangs work, be they bikers, boyz in 'da hood, the police, some crew, the mob etc. - if you pick a fight with one of them, you just picked a fight with all of them.  One for all, all for one.  That the entire power of a gang is strength in numbers + loyalty.

Ah it depends on what you mean by necessary, Brit. 

If people had tried to riot like they did in England in the American South, Texas, the west or rural midwest, hundreds of people who are now in prison would have finished their criminal careers in the streets last week.  In fact, it would never happen here because people know better.  It's only in inner cities where the people don't own guns that such things happen.

But that isn't the point of American firearms ownership.  The point is to make our government fear us.  So that Tienamen Square, the Warsaw Ghetto, or what happening in Syria now could never happen here.

Is it important?  Absolutely.  I don't expect to ever be perceived as other than female, but that, of course, was not always the case early on.  Anyway,  I do practice self defense, as everyone  should, especially women.  I firmly believe training yourself to stay out of a potentially dangerous situation is one of the most important aspects of self defense.  But.....caught in a situation requiring physical defense, I feel confident in my ability to successfully defend myself, little old lady with a cane.
You have to be very very careful in what is considered reasonable force in defense, and many people who defended themselves appropriately still found themselves behind bars.  We live in crazy, crazy times. 
So ladies and gents, do your yoga, your tai chi, tai kwon do, gung fu, meditate, and remain very limber.  I keep it simple........I don't practice complex moves, but concentrate on about 6 core defensive moves, and combinations I you need against multiple attackers. That's where I don't have such confidence.....against multiple attackers.  Better than most in my generation, but still......more than one attacker is a very difficult, deadly situation, so make sure you don't place yourself in such a situation.

Quote from: Miss Bev on August 11, 2011, 11:43:40 PM
You have to be very very careful in what is considered reasonable force in defense, and many people who defended themselves appropriately still found themselves behind bars.  We live in crazy, crazy times. 

True, but better behind bars than six feet under. Obviously pulling on a gun on someone who just shoved you is too much, but if (and I think you'd probably be able to tell) someone is really trying to hurt you, don't hold back because they certainly won't. If it can only be you or them who walks away and not both, might as well be you.

That said though, avoidance is still much preferred if at all possible.

I would not do well in prison. I know this. For me, the choice between being in an American prison or being dead is a hard call, although the chance at living still wins out - barely.  American prisons can be very dangerous places to be...especially for transgender folk. The words "General Population" in connection with prison scare the crud out of me.

As for the right to bear arms vs the privilege of driving, more people die each year in the US from automobile accidents than from gunshots...which perhaps argues in favor of a background check before getting a driver's license. Additionally, the right to carry a firearm does not include the right to fire it nilly-willy; if you are attacked by a group of rowdies and shoot at them when there is a "reasonable chance to escape the situation without the use of lethal force" (as determined by the court/jury), you may find yourself going to prison even if you felt you were just defending your life. Gun owners generally walk into court under a biased cloud of suspicion and wind up having to prove their innocence. Add in non-cisgender status and the bias only gets worse.

There are neighborhoods where I feel perfectly safe because I know most of the residents are armed and there are other neighborhoods where I fear for my life because I know the residents are most-likely armed. It's the character of the owners that scares me, not the weapons themselves.

Sadly, we have had great success at disarming law-abiding citizens, but not such good results at disarming criminals. It seems like every time we pass a new gun control law somewhere, violent crime in the affected area drops a little at first and then climbs even higher. Then there are cases like the latest scandal on our southern border where Federal law enforcement agents were actively putting guns in the hands of drug runners and "coyotes" (people who sneak immigrants across the border, often at excessive prices and usually without concern for the safety of their clients). That certainly does not reflect well on our government.

Me: a gun owner who has never pointed a gun at another human and, God willing, will never need to.

Why do so many feel they cannot live their daily life without being attacked? (the news media maybe?)

Well the news people don't help.  The entire 'if it bleeds it leads' mentality, coupled with the fact that they cover the rare (one attack gets coverage, the million other people who walked past there yesterday and did not get attacked is never mentioned), then we 'personalize' that - so it like "GOSH! I walk past that point, or drive, or have been past there once, or saw it from the freeway" - whatever, that makes the event seem more likely, as we have some sort of personal knowledge of the location.

But I think the real perp here is not the news, but the shows, which tilt heavily toward 'action' and thus have a lot more killings/attacks and the like than normal life.  Every episode of Law&Order has a horrible crime, but every day of your life does not.   But if you're not out in normal life all the time, if you watch these shows (and their ilk) on a constant basis you will (and this has been proven again and again) radically overestimate the rate of violent crime and violence.

I dont watch tv, specifically to not watch the news and be fed fear by society, government and corporations.

Smart girl there.  I live a similar way (*I have a TV, and it's even got cable because I do love movies, I've got every movie channel, and I watch a metric ->-bleeped-<--ton of movies, all I watch is movies.)  Other than something like The Inauguration or election night I never do the news, for all the reasons you mentioned, and one more.  I know cameras very well.  I work with them a lot, and have a lot of experience with them over about 40 years, and I know that what you see on something like 'the news' is not what was really happening, but a highly selective slice, that was then further manipulated by humans (many of whom are very, very good at their jobs) and isn't near the 'reality' that people want to see it as being.  And many times the reality of what was going on was nothing like what you are seeing.  I KNOW that from my own life, and many times in that life in several different ways, so I know that is true.

Reality is only as much as you respond with or react to the reality of what is being presented for you?

Warning about post !

Quote from: Dana_H on August 12, 2011, 01:15:39 AM
I would not do well in prison. I know this. For me, the choice between being in an American prison or being dead is a hard call, although the chance at living still wins out - barely.  American prisons can be very dangerous places to be...especially for transgender folk. The words "General Population" in connection with prison scare the crud out of me.

That is a toss for me, I think I'd instigate a cop so that they would shoot me right there. In a U.S. prison, it seems the only protections trans people have involve rape or the death of your identity. If you screw up and get thrown in jail before surgery you will somehow die.

Even if you only get probation, try being a convicted (jobless transgender) felon. Uhhh, how about, no?

Quote from: EmmaM on August 12, 2011, 11:59:12 AM
In a U.S. prison, it seems the only protections trans people have involve rape or the death of your identity. If you screw up and get thrown in jail before surgery you will somehow die.

Even if you only get probation, try being a convicted (jobless transgender) felon. Uhhh, how about, no?

Such a gross overgeneralization...I've known/dealt with a small handful through the years of working in my field.  Aside from a post-op I know of in one of the women's facilities who goes out of her way to be a disciplinary problem, they have all done well in what amounts to a general population.  Most of the pre-ops who entered prison are housed in safekeeping, which is a sub-segment of the general population and has job assignments just like any other GP housing area.

As to employment prospects, a lot of our clients are able to secure legitimate employment post-release.  And even among persons who are not clients but who know the work I do, they have well-paying jobs in the community despite being on parole or probation.  Is it a complicating factor?  Sure.  But not an impossible task...

Quote from: Ann Onymous on August 12, 2011, 01:14:26 PM
Such a gross overgeneralization...I've known/dealt with a small handful through the years of working in my field.  Aside from a post-op I know of in one of the women's facilities who goes out of her way to be a disciplinary problem, they have all done well in what amounts to a general population.  Most of the pre-ops who entered prison are housed in safekeeping, which is a sub-segment of the general population and has job assignments just like any other GP housing area.

As to employment prospects, a lot of our clients are able to secure legitimate employment post-release.  And even among persons who are not clients but who know the work I do, they have well-paying jobs in the community despite being on parole or probation.  Is it a complicating factor?  Sure.  But not an impossible task...

I was, of course, speaking from the darkest paranoid corners of my mind. Something I have to learn to get a handle on.

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 12, 2011, 06:18:07 AM
Why do so many feel they cannot live their daily life without being attacked?

Well I can tell you why I feel this way. One neighbor had a break-in to his apartment and another had her purse stolen from her car right outside. A few years ago there was a report that someone broke in and attacked a woman in one of the apartments. A few summers ago somebody stole the license plate from my car and several others near it. These are all incidents right where I live, not including the rest of the city. People have been mugged at knife point on campus down the street and shot in the parking lot of the local Walmart. Just a week or two ago there was a note on my door (and everyone else's) from the police dept. telling people to be alert because many crimes have been reported in the area lately and listing a number to call to report any suspicious activity.

Knowing how to protect yourself and your property is important.  But being proactive is probably the best thing you can do to ensure your safety.


After reading all your guys and gals posts I felt I should chime in and offer some helpful safety tips from the perspective of a LEO.  (And yes, I've been hardwired to do all of these things.)



Install motion sensor lights on the exterior of your home.
Make sure your doors and windows are always secure.
Do not use interior doors as exterior doors, they can easily be 'shouldered' opened. 
If you do not already have a deadbolt on your front door and door leading to your garage, get one.
Investment in a fire-proof safe or lock-box that you can weld or install inside your residence.  (Or keep your personal valuables and important paperwork in a safe deposit box at the bank.)
Even if there are not children present in the home, it's ill advised to leave any firearms unlocked and/or loaded.
Invest in a small (under 2.5 oz) concealable canister of pepper spray or a taser (which can be lethal.)


If someone ever physically tries to cause you bodily harm and you are unable to flee, gouge them in the eye with your finger/keys/etc...  The eyes are the most sensitive part and a persons natural reaction is to immediately cover their eyes with their hands, which would provide you opportunity to further defend yourself and/or get some distance between you and them.

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 13, 2011, 08:27:12 AM
Check on adding hired security.

Very rarely are they actually a deterrent to crime against residences.  You're better off printing up your own stickers from a nationally recognized home security company and buying a small metal sign to put it on in your front yard.  Cheaper too.

Self Defense stuff is good to the degree that it makes you more aware and think about things more, and think about them in more realistic ways.  And it's awesome to the degree that it helps you become more physically fit.  But as real defense, perhaps not so much.

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 13, 2011, 09:04:27 AM
I like the idea of a taser for home security. Much safer ...and wont accidentally kill someone or be used to suicide in a moment of despair. They have a small one that can even be put into a purse and is legal in most U.S. states. Cheaper than self defense classes requiring contracts too. I would consider it for the bedroom, in the case of being awoken in the middle of the night by a strange sound.

Pepper Spray, the foam type, 18%, Police grade would be better. Or...run! Remember what Richard Pryor said...RUN!

It is tuff to run in heels.

I'm considering buying some security thing to carry around as well, I lost a lot of muscle mass after I began HRT.

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 13, 2011, 09:04:27 AM
I like the idea of a taser for home security. Much safer ...and wont accidentally kill someone or be used to suicide in a moment of despair. They have a small one that can even be put into a purse and is legal in most U.S. states. Cheaper than self defense classes requiring contracts too. I would consider it for the bedroom, in the case of being awoken in the middle of the night by a strange sound.

A civilian taser is actually MORE lethal than law enforcement taser but isn't the best for protecting yourself against a burglary.  For home protection I would recommend a handgun.  If you have an aversion to handguns, buy a shotgun and load it with rock salt.

Quote from: SandraJane on August 13, 2011, 09:13:35 AM
Pepper Spray, the foam type, 18%, Police grade would be better. Or...run! Remember what Richard Pryor said...RUN!

Most states have laws regarding civilian concealment and/or ownership of pepper spray.  General rule of thumb is as long as it's under 2.5 oz, less than 10% OC and is not camouflaged printed, it's a-ok.

I carry no weapons and have no self defence training.

I was mugged once, but you'd have had to be Jackie Chan to have stopped that, there were 6 of 'em and they had knives.

I have been hassled a few times, you either make them laugh, ignore them and walk on to a safer place or inform them politely to '->-bleeped-<- off'...oddly enough the third one was worked for me a few times, much to the surprise of my sister the time that a car drove onto the pavement to cut us off and I informed them that they would like to leave.

These might be the benefit of being a rather stocky broad shouldered individual with a fondess for bovver boots, or it could have been the sense that I would hurt them to protect my sister - although I have never been in a fight, even at school and so have no idea what to do or how to do it.

To be honest the very best tips for safety is to be aware, alert and not to do anything stupid. To know when to keep your head down and when to flare up - and most importantly, to know where the safe places are and to not veer off them alone if you don't have to (a rule I break all the time, but still a good un).

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 13, 2011, 09:39:22 AM
Oh, too bad about the taser. It sounded like a good alternative.

Personally, I don't like people acting spastic and pissing themselves all over my living room carpets.  The smell just lingers.  Now blood, Cola will get that out easy.

Quote from: Epi on August 13, 2011, 09:48:39 AM
Personally, I don't like people acting spastic and pissing themselves all over my living room carpets.  The smell just lingers.  Now blood, Cola will get that out easy.

That rug really tied the room together.

Quote from: Epi on August 13, 2011, 09:29:18 AM
For home protection I would recommend a handgun.  If you have an aversion to handguns, buy a shotgun and load it with rock salt.

Rock Salt and Bacon Rind works for me! Seriously, don't get a gun unless you can shoot to kill, not wound. Sounds overboard, but an attacker will take the gun and use it on you.

What makes a TASER lethal is any medical conditions known or unknown in the person being zapped. Example had a man in his mid 30's brought into the ER with Chest Pain after being zapped by the police. Turns out he had a "silent heart attack" not long before and his Heart was significantly damaged. Went to the Cath Lab the next day. Ironically, if that had not occurred he would have probably kept on going until the next one...Heart Attack that is.

This will prevent having to get rid of the rug that tied the room together.