Interesting conversation I had at work today. But first a small backstory. I just got a new job at Disney World, I am getting acquainted with the people there. I work out on "stage", basically just selling merchandise at one of the stores. Well, it turns out there's another, much older, transwoman that works near me. She seems happy, and I'm very happy for her; but one of my coworkers didn't seem so happy for her.

She (my coworker) approached me and said, "So do you know about ... 'it'?". I was like, Nope. Then she pointed at the older transwoman. She proceeded to explain to me how "it" was hired on as male but gradually changed to female, and how it isn't clear whether or not "it" had "it's" surgery. Also how "it" is required to use the bathroom in the managers trailer, because "it" started using whichever bathroom "it" pleased. I am not exaggerating this one bit, she used the term "it" every chance she got.

I was deeply saddened by this, but at the same time sort of happy. Sad because my sister is viewed so negatively, and saddened even further that if I ever get clocked, that I will be equally shunned. Although I couldn't help but feel a little bit flattered that I pass well enough for her to blab that insensitive nonsense at me.

After my shift, I tried to get a hold of one of the managers that I trust; but I was unable to. I'll go into work early tomorrow and try to talk to him about it. The whole thing really bothered me.

That's utterly revolting!   I'm sorry that both her and you are in such a position.  Hope your manager deals with this situation quickly and efficiently!

Seriously, I think I'd rather be called "he" than "it."  I blame a lack of education.  Well at least this is a good litmus test for your passing, which obviously you passed.  Hearing this sort of thing really saddens me.  Do people seriously think transition is some fetish; that we go through all this for ->-bleeped-<-s and giggles?  It's that sort of mentality that keeps transition expenses from being covered by the majority of medical insurance.  I do hope you sort this out, let us know how it goes.

Quote from: Maddie Secutura on August 14, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
Do people seriously think transition is some fetish; that we go through all this for ->-bleeped-<-s and giggles?

Sadly, yes. Many but not all of the people I work with feel this way.

Sadly, my dad does the same thing.   Either "he" or "it" but never "she."  The worst thing is he will switch if he learns someone he is talking about is trans.  As if the fact he couldn't tell beforehand has no bearing on the situation.  I think some people are just beyond help, and sadly at least one of them is in my immediate family.

Ignorance can be both scary and sad.

I feel terrible about it. She isn't a bad person. She is easy to talk to, easy to get along with, but sadly she is also miseducated. I do not want to overtly champion any cause, because that will out me when I am happily living stealth. But I also don't necessarily want her to get in trouble, because she really isn't a bad person.

So I'm stuck at a crossroads.

1: I can confide in her that I'm trans and potentially out myself to the entire area.
2: I can agree and laugh along side her, cementing my stealth status. (Not ever going to happen).
3: I can respectfully disagree with her views, giving her reason to suspect why I disagree with her.
4: I can report her anonymously to HR getting her in trouble.

1 is very scary. 2 is NEVER going to happen. 3 is a possibility, but it doesn't seem like enough. 4, well I don't see myself doing 4 right away without pursuing some other avenues.

Option 1 sounds like a bad idea Sam. Option 2 means you are a hypocrite. Option 3 doesn't gives her any reason to suspect of you, more even so if you find other coworkers who are friends with that transperson and disagree with her views.

Option 4 is a possibility. I don't think prejudice equals lack of education.

Quote from: AmySmiles on August 14, 2011, 10:16:23 PM
Sadly, my dad does the same thing.   Either "he" or "it" but never "she."  The worst thing is he will switch if he learns someone he is talking about is trans.  As if the fact he couldn't tell beforehand has no bearing on the situation.  I think some people are just beyond help, and sadly at least one of them is in my immediate family.

    Yeah i know what you mean. My family did the same thing to me back when i attempted transition the first time, they either referred to me as "it" or "crazy" and thought i was just having a mental breakdown. They would say this sort of thing was "unnatural" and against god etc. I was still young (20) at the time so the thought of losing my family really scared me and to be honest i didn't have many friends to go to for support, and losing my job made things worse so i decided to stop transition. 



        Point being: it's because of ignorance like this gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, and transgender people go their whole lives afraid to be who they really are and that is sad. Now that society is more open and understanding to gay & lesbian individuals i think it's time that the public is better educated on ->-bleeped-<-.   

option 4 is the best way to deal with this and to keep your job

there is no way you are the first person she has talked to about the other trans woman

Like others said, educating people is an excellent way for people to overcome their prejudices.

To be honest, I think it's neither nice nor fair to immediately report the co-worker on the comment. It's as if you're punished about something you don't even know about. I like to remember that most of the world still knows next to nothing about transgender people, and would give them a chance first.

I always seem to think up extreme examples but, would you want to be put in prison because you drove a car in Saudi Arabia and you didn't know that it's illegal for women to drive there?

So I strongly disagree with option 4 as a first action, though I think it may be considered at a later stage. Think about it from the other person's point of view first There's also the possibility that she was using "it" only because she didn't feel either "he" or "she" sounded right, instead of because of the negative implications of "it"... something to consider...

I also think of a 'soft' approach to appeal to that girls humanity --- she may just get the point?

Often you will find this sort of attitude is a cover-up of the 'fear of the unknown'.

Just try approach her from a warm caring attitude to be more accepting of others, rather then shun them.

If she stays 'hard-assed' with no inclination to see that point, preferring to be derogatory, THEN I suggest to report her.

Axelle

Quote from: Axélle on August 15, 2011, 12:27:44 AM
I also think of a 'soft' approach to appeal to that girls humanity --- she may just get the point?

Often you will find this sort of attitude is a cover-up of the 'fear of the unknown'.

Just try approach her from a warm caring attitude to be more accepting of others, rather then shun them.

If she stays 'hard-assed' with no inclination to see that point, preferring to be derogatory, THEN I suggest to report her.

Axelle

This and...

No doubt that she will be back around with more "High School" level dribble     Sounds like the type

Perhaps discussing it in a non-confrontational manner could be option 5

"I understand that there are unique individuals working here, that was explained to me upon hire... I definitely am not going to breach Co. policy and I feel no desire to be disrespectful to other employees"

This doesn't out you and keeps you on the team players list... Plus it plants the seed that going against Co. policy is not in her best interest...If that doesn't shut down the smack talking Trollop, option 4 is still available

 I did have something similar that I reported previously. One of my employees started to talk about the bald headed its in nighties. I question her and she was referring to people in the SRS unit. As her boss I was able to give her a reasonably strident talk about the Hospitals policy on gender discrimination. Her excuse was that she didn't think transgendered people were covered as they didn't know what gender they were.

Geez, find a wall, bash head against it.

Cindy

I would report her to HR with a very long letter about my disgust that type of attitude is permitted (and request my name not be mentioned if the issue is brought to her).

How could a trans person sit by and watch as another trans person is being subject to things like this? No one is asking you to go to extremes and sacrifice your own safety, but you can do a LOT without it coming to that.

If we don't stick up for eachother, who will? If we EVER want discrimination to end, we have to stand together... ALL of us (not just the ones who don't pass and don't have a choice).

PS, I really hate stealth

  I dont think reporting her would be the first step.

I prefer option 3, however you must keep your cool, and educate her with facts.
If after that she still insists on being ignorant, politely tell her to take her bigotry elsewhere, likewise I would then tell mgmt.
Congrats on the job at disney world. Your hair is beautiful in your new profile pic :-)

In my opinion, going right to mgmt without addressing it on a human level face to face, is exactly the kind of sentiment that allows this sort of discrimination to persist. Her views need to be challenged. Not challenged by an authoritative institution (the job), but rather a regular, whimsical, intelligent human being that she sees as her equal. You are there for a reason Samantha, these kind of situations don't happen on accident. Its called dharma, and yours is playing out before you.

I work as a man, only dressing part time, and I'm not out, so it's different, but when Chrissy Pollis was attacked, I told my boss that a transgendered woman had been beaten at a McDonalds. He said "A he-she?" I said "No, a transgendered woman." This was followed by a long uncomfortable silence, but I couldn't just let it pass. My two cents worth.

Quote from: Rabbit on August 15, 2011, 04:15:35 AM
I would report her to HR with a very long letter about my disgust that type of attitude is permitted (and request my name not be mentioned if the issue is brought to her).

Such letters are often available in disciplinary proceedings as well as litigation.  Anonymity is rarely a protectable interest in such instances...

QuoteIf we don't stick up for eachother, who will? If we EVER want discrimination to end, we have to stand together... ALL of us (not just the ones who don't pass and don't have a choice).

PS, I really hate stealth

I didn't sign on for a cause all those years ago nor have I had cause to wish I had someone coming to my rescue.  Some of us are quite content to go on living life, especially when that life has been free of 'discrimination.'

Thank you everyone for your input. I'm still torn between talking to a manager and approaching her myself.

Quote from: Rabbit on August 15, 2011, 04:15:35 AM
PS, I really hate stealth

A lot of people have problems with the idea of stealth. I'm not stealth everywhere, just in my professional life; it avoids biases and prejudices, like what I've explained in my first post.

But it's not my, nor anyone's obligation to champion the cause for transgender rights and non-discrimination. Once you do, it's full time, you can never really go stealth again. I never chose to be transsexual, I was born with a birth defect that made people erroneously assume that I am male. I simply want to move forward and live my life the way I would have, had I been born normal.

Bring the bitch down a notch or two. No one deserves to be called "it". Period.

And ignorance is no excuse.

Either tell her, directly, that was she said was hateful, ignorant and wrong, and that you will go directly to HR if she does it again, or just got to HR and let them know the situation. I can't imagine wanting to work around someone who shows that much discontent, that little of respect, to another human.