Quote from: Ann Onymous on August 15, 2011, 09:42:45 PM
Being transsexual is NOT a part of my identity.  It is a part of my medical history, but NOT my identity.

This is something I agree with. I can understand if some people do want to take what they were born with and incorporate it into their identity, but not all of us do. It is just a medical condition, like so many others that people are born with or get at some point.

I do believe that everyone needs to stand up against injustice though. It doesn't matter if you are a member of the group that is being mistreated or not. If standing up puts you at risk, then you have to make a choice, but don't let that choice be guided by fear. Pick your battles yes, but don't run from them all. Have we really become such a selfish, greedy society that no one wants to stand up for what is right when it gets tough (or even when it's easy)? Does no one have any honor anymore?

Quote from: Rabbit on August 16, 2011, 12:01:55 AM
I know I would want others to come to my aid were things reversed. It is what a good person does.... it is the right thing to do... I just can't only think of myself. And, in helping others, I help create a better world which also affects me.

This is what I am talking about. I was not raised with a more communal look on things, quite the opposite in fact, but I came to see things this way on my own, and it also fits with my faith tradition. Just today my brother was saying (in many more words than this but the message was the same) that you have to be aggressive and out for yourself, neither getting help nor giving it, but I simply do not believe that that is the right thing to do. Dog eat dog may be the way of the wilds, but it is not civilized, and no society can really call itself a civilization while it allows barbarism, even if it is disguised as commerce, law, politics, or whatever else. Maybe I give humanity too much credit in believing that we can achieve higher standards, but I am not going to give up and accept the terrible status quo. Neither should you. There is simply too much at stake.

Rabbit I think you should travel to one of those Islamic countries besides Iran and fight for the rights of transsexual people there, they need you because others fear death But you are fearless so you'll be okay with it, and are not selfish so won't just concentrate on those transsexuals (like most of us) who can already live quite comfortably! Me, I'm too scared and selfish to do that...

I don't agree with everything Ann Onymous has said here--that is, not all of her choices are my choices, and I would probably discuss and debate some of her ideas if we knew each other IRL. But I wholeheartedly defend her right to define herself and live her life as she pleases without having someone else judge the validity of her choices, place other (unwanted) labels on her, or try to lay social (as opposed to legal) obligations on her that she hasn't chosen for herself.

^--- This.

I think that part of the problem is the word "stealth" itself, which is very loaded, but is loaded in different ways depending on who's using it. To me "stealth" as a word implies hiding - which to me is perfectly valid; but a lot of people use it in a more generic sense just to mean "I am now living in the gender I was always supposed to be in the first place, and why is it anybody's business but mine that I wasn't always able to do this?" - which to me is perfectly valid.

And I would also add: it is reasonable to ask someone to explain their motives if you're unsure why they do or do not do something in a particular way - it is unreasonable either to demand this, or to assume you know their motives without asking.

Quote from: Samantharz on August 14, 2011, 09:19:02 PM
Interesting conversation I had at work today. But first a small backstory. I just got a new job at Disney World, I am getting acquainted with the people there. I work out on "stage", basically just selling merchandise at one of the stores. Well, it turns out there's another, much older, transwoman that works near me. She seems happy, and I'm very happy for her; but one of my coworkers didn't seem so happy for her.

She (my coworker) approached me and said, "So do you know about ... 'it'?". I was like, Nope. Then she pointed at the older transwoman. She proceeded to explain to me how "it" was hired on as male but gradually changed to female, and how it isn't clear whether or not "it" had "it's" surgery. Also how "it" is required to use the bathroom in the managers trailer, because "it" started using whichever bathroom "it" pleased. I am not exaggerating this one bit, she used the term "it" every chance she got.

From this post on it appears the speaker of "It"( now to be known afterwards as "She-It") has become the focus, what about Option 6; Approach your fellow TransWoman co-worker. But not about the nosy She-It (LOL) co-worker, but what is attracting all the attention to her.

You could go to HR, but maybe you can help the "Sista", is she that obvious? Her looks, voice, etc. This is a touchy subject but what if you side step "She-It" co- worker and stealthy go to the other "Sista", don't bring up what's being said about her because she probably Knows all to well. Maybe you can help her go stealth, it does put you at some risk, but HR should be used sparingly, like a an Atomic Bomb! Ka-Boom!

The concepts of "Stealth" and "Activism" have been fought over (discussed with passion) on and off again since this forum started.  Guess what, we have never come to a concenses of opinion and I doubt we ever will.

I have my doubts that we will ever agree on the meaning (and levels) of "Stealth" and I am sure we will never agree wether or not we all should be "Activists".

I for one am not an Activist, and I guess I would be called "semi" stealth.  I don't advertise who I am, I live my life, nothing more, nothing less.  Obviously anyone who knew me from before knows about my transition, its their choice how they want to deal with that information (luckily most all accept it).  I'm never going to run up to each new person I meet and say "hey guess what..." its not their business.  However if they ask a valid question I will most likely answer it truthfully.

We need to accept that there in no "one" answer to this issue.  Everyone has to decide on their own how they want to handle being public.  And we need to "Accept" each persons decision and not deride them for how they want to live THEIR life.  It is their life and they deserve to live it how they feel is best for them.

Just don't tell us how to live and we won't tell you how to live.  And don't say your doing it "for" us and/or that they the person is "afraid" or they would live their life differently.

The life belongs to the person living it.

Ok, I'll talk about stealth first, then about my coworker.

Firstly. I choose stealth because it's simply my right. I see no reason whatsoever for my coworkers to know that I was born with a birth defect. It's inconsequential, and is simply none of their business. Being out at work has a way of creating an unnecessary bias, and an additional stress on me because people may (or indefinitely will) whisper.

I stand up and I'm counted when it matters. I've written letters to my congressman, I go to support groups not because I need them, but to help others, and I stay on these forums mostly to help others, not because I need it very much.

I am quite active and "out" when I need to be. But in my professional life, I do not need to be. I also have some various areas of my personal life where I am not out.

---

Now back to the original topic on hand. I talked to my manager confidentially. I told him that I do not want her to get in trouble, but I'm not entirely sure of how to approach the situation. I told him how I believe she just seems to be miseducated. He agrees, and he said he was surprised that she said something like that. He seemed thrilled about my reaction of disgust and my acceptance of the transgender employee, so that may have actually scored some points for me.

He basically said what I thought he'd say, that is if she brings it up again, respectfully disagree with her and tell her that you don't think it's alright.

I'll go to HR as a last resort. As far as trying to help the transwoman become more stealth. Well there are 2 things wrong with that. One, I don't think there's much hope for her. Two, that would require outing myself, and even to her I don't want to do that. I've talked and made friends with her though.