Hi there,

I know dating for the trans folks can be a struggle especially for the pre OP people. I am pre OP but living full time since about 8 months ago.

I have been setting up kind of date with a fellow I like. I don't know him very well but I know he is not homo/transphobic and he is into women. So far so gut.
He slipped out of my hands because he is not working any more at a place I used to see him so I looked him up on the FB.
I wasn't overly direct about my motivations but I was hinting a little bit. I don't know how much he knew about my past prior to this moment but I am fairly open regarding my past on my FB site and there is even an older photo of my male self so he is guessing now to say at least. However he did not change his mood and still wants to get together. Do you have any peace of advice how to go about my state of transition? I know all about safety and think he is just fine guy but is there a good or better way to bring this issue up. I know every person is different so I am not hoping you'd predict the outcome of this but I am always happy to hear other's experience and advice.

I know of some sad stories how a guy just got up and walked out of the restaurant or sent a weired text message but I also know of some people here who did have success in dating. How did you approach the topic, what was their first reaction? How is it with the intimacy in positive outcomes if you don't mind sharing, or pm me if you prefer or not?
thanks,

envie

I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience or did I post this question in the wrong room? Please advice me if so!

Any way, I am meeting my guy tomorrow. At the moment I just feel like a dummy. I imagine he is probably gonna say something like "I have a girlfriend already, or I am sorry but I'm not gay" or something like that.
I'll play the situation by the ear I guess and brace for the disappointment. If I were to listen to someone else telling me this same story I'd probably think she is just setting herself for a disappointment, but I have to try or why else bother living?

Wish me luck!

Quote from: envie on August 18, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience

Sadly, that's me in a nutshell.   Never been asked out, and too shy to make the first move.

I plan to ALWAYS reveal I am trans before meeting them for a date. Actually, when people flirt / joke with me I laugh and go "I doubt I'm your type" . I want to get the entire "do you have transphobia" issue out of the way as early as possible so I can really know if they are interested in me or not.

I figure when I am more seriously interested in dating, I will go after gay guys. The ones I have dated in the past were completely like "normal straight guys" (and treated me like "the girl" anyway).... and they won't have an issue with me still having some parts, so win / win (I find it really odd when people here say they aren't attracted to "gay guys"... the only thing that makes them gay is that they are interested in guys ~and a lot are bi~).

Quote from: envie on August 18, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience or did I post this question in the wrong room? Please advice me if so!

I've got plenty of dating experience, but not in the realm of dating the male of the species.  Admittedly, I did not have to do a lot of dating while I was pre-op since I had found my partner not long after transition.  While I was active in the lesbian community prior to meeting my now-ex, I made the choice not to get too involved with other women beyond some drunken groping...I had no real interest in being in bed with someone until the birth defect was surgically corrected.

QuoteWish me luck!

hope it goes well...

oh, and FWIW, I rarely disclose the past...personal choice and not something that is relevant to casual dating.

well I just got back from my little rendezvous and it went fairly well!

We talked about visual art and touched on our life backgrounds, interests and such. The conversation stuttered a bit on the beginning due to nervousness at least on my part, but then it started rolling nicely. About hour and a half into the conversation we had a little moment of pause and it seemed the time to say good buy just suggested itself naturally. We stepped outside of the cafe and he said he enjoyed meeting me and he'd like to meet again, at least once o month or as our schedules allow. Then I went out on the limb and told him about my attraction to him and how that was the biggest motivation to see him.
He then explained he is getting over his last relationship and is not ready for a new one because he has to figure out who he is. Then I said I totally understand as I am also trying to figure out who I am as I have lived majority of my life not as a woman. He then said he still doesn't want to reject the Idea of dating me so we shall definitely continue to see each other.
We then hugged each other and it felt sooo good. It wasn't just one of those soft friendly hugs, he pressed me gently but firmly against himself. 

Zoë Natasha, I've been following a little bit of your transition and you are so lovely. I encourage you to flirt a little and enjoy yourselves but be safe!

I agree it is important to figure out if the potential date has trans/homophobic issues but I myself don't feel like disclosing that right at the beginning. No one introduces herself i.e. with "Hello, my name is Stephani and I am GG" or what ever s/he is. I am many different things first and somewhere down the list I happen to be a Transwoman.
I wouldn't want to date someone who is exclusively gay because I can't have a relationship with someone who is in love with me for the bits I despise or for someone who I am not. Namely a man.

I totally understand the discomfort with getting intimate with someone while still having the birth defect uncorrected but my need to get a hug or give a kiss is still greater then the discomfort around the extra bits. For me there is a workaround for the problem with my birth defect, besides majority of any relationship happens outside the bed frame.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. By the way, I think the more reactions from the first dates we know off the better, regardless of going on a date with a man or a woman. I think the challenges our bodies present to people who don't have gender issues can be universal!

Quote from: envie on August 19, 2011, 02:30:32 PM
well I just got back from my little rendezvous and it went fairly well!

good to hear...

QuoteHe then explained he is getting over his last relationship and is not ready for a new one because he has to figure out who he is.

Regardless of reason, I can wholly understand not wanting to jump into dating right after ending a relationship...I think it was six months before I even wanted to go out with friends to a bar much less contemplate dating again.  Ironically enough, it was not long after a friend convinced me to go out with her to a pool party that she would wind up breaking up with her partner and be in the same place I had been a few months earlier. 

QuoteI totally understand the discomfort with getting intimate with someone while still having the birth defect uncorrected but my need to get a hug or give a kiss is still greater then the discomfort around the extra bits. For me there is a workaround for the problem with my birth defect, besides majority of any relationship happens outside the bed frame.

don't get me wrong...I still had my share of kissing and hugging back then...I just never allowed things to progress to a bedroom, which admittedly screwed part of my life up until my mid-20's.  Post-operatively, I simply live life as it should have been lived even back then...

I'm so glad the date went well for you!
This is an area i very much struggle with and probably why i am still single. Being pre-op makes it difficult to date regular straight men that i come into contact with out and about. I tried it in the past but i feel it's too risky. I am on a site in the UK that is aimed at trans dating but i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it. It really just reinforces a view of me as something not really a woman.

I did date a man a few years ago that i met on another site. After a while when i realised he was serious about dating and that i liked him too i decided to have "the talk". That went reasonably ok except he was rather shocked and thought i was winding him up at first. He got back to me though saying he didn't care and that i was still the same person. So, we dated and then it came to spending a night together.
I wont go into graphic detail but when actually faced with the reality of my biology he couldn't cope, jumped out of bed and mumbled something about really needing a cup of tea. Needless to say that was not good for my self esteem and spending the rest of the time together making polite conversation and not being able to let my emotions out was horrible.

Sorry if this seems pessimistic, i know this is not a universal experience but i thought i would share.

Thanks for sharing CloeDharma! Although your experience had a sad ending there was at least an attempt on his part to look beyond the genital issue.

Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it. It really just reinforces a view of me as something not really a woman.

This is pretty much how I feel about it as well.
I would be open to date a bisexual man. So wanting me in spite of me being trans, or at least not minding me being trans would be OK with me.

I hope you have better luck in the future!

sorry i shouldve read looked more into other peoples threads. seems you were talking about the same thing as i did on a therad i just made. well i was like out of it last night so... sorry.

anyway, if you see it my story is there. tomorrow will be my first face to face thing with a guy who doesnt know before hand what i am.

i guess ill let you know what happens.

if this goes well, i think ill go out with a couple more guys. theyve been asking me out for a while now and i just keep on saying no. what can i say im worried but... well. we'll see tomorrow

as for guys wanting you coz they KNOW youre this... what can i say some of them really just have sick sexual interests and thats all there is to it. im not saying that theres nothing wantable in US or wanting us is off, its just that its just really weird for them to SEEK something so specific? im sorry i cant word out my opinion. but i got the same feeling when i did a dating site for trans people back then. i dontknow

Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
but i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it.

I see being trans as a selling point (or at least not something negative). It isn't some handicap that a partner would need to overlook to date me...

You make it seem like being trans is second rate to being genetic female... that, all other things equal, a trans person should be less desired than a genetic female.

I guess I don't want to think that way. I don't feel inferior to a genetic female simply because I wasn't born that way... I am simply different. Different is NOT worse.

Sure they have some things I don't. But I have things they don't... and that is how different works.

It would be like saying a certain type of apple is "better" than others. No, they are all apples and would all be great to eat, just each type has their own qualities that different people prefer.

I really dislike the self hate a lot of the trans community seems to have. It is similar to how women were made to believe they were 2nd rate to men in history.... or how any other minority is forced into a "lesser" role (such as blacks during slavery). Don't let a bigotted and closed minded society brainwash you into thinking you are less of a person because of what you are.... we need to find confidence to be who we are without feeling as if we need to fit some mold and blend in so no one notices we are different (such as getting trachia shave? there is really no reason for it, other than to help us hide).

Hope things work out Envie.

I am settling into a new town without any personal history to complicate things and will be dipping my toe tentatively into the lesbian dating pool soon.  I am fairly open about being in transition with the group of girls I have been introduced to, and will see how things go. 
Everyone I have met so far has been friendly, so I am optimistic, even if I decide to wait until post SRS before I start getting serious.

Karen.

Hi there,

thanks Karen! I wish you further luck in your new town!

As for my guy, its going to be a bit of a patience game as, like I said before, he is still collecting himself from his last relationship and since it seems to be a while since his break up, it leads me to believe it was a major event in his life. So far I've been only making some appearance on Facebook just to keep myself present to him but there can't be really any rush.

Rabbit, to me you seem to make some good points but then it also seems you are struggling with accepting reality as oppose to how you believe the reality should be.
If you have a crash on a straight guy then having male genitals is rather an obstacle to say at least. But to take your analogy with apples along, people have preference for Cameo, Breaburn, and Honey Crisp apples for fresh consumption. Delicious are just universally know as not so desirable apple kind for fresh consumption in spite of it's name. BUT if you are trying to make apple sauce or some dessert then Delicious are your first choice, however there are a lot more people who prefer to eat their apples fresh than make them into sauce. So, us Trans-anything people are a kind of Delicious apple that is a bit harder to sell(this is how you called it, I myself don't prefer that term as I am not trying to "sell" anything)

I think of my trans background rather as a filter for the guys. Who ever has a problem with it or some sort of Phobia then he is not the right kind of a guy for me.
As for dating gay guys, I could have done that without transitioning, but I am not a gay man. Its that simple.

Gantz, you can start your own thread any time, there is no ownership of any thread topic
Hope your date goes well, keep us posted! Remember to be safe!!!

Overall I just tried to enjoy myself at my date and introduce myself from all kinds of aspects and angles just like a regular woman who only happens to be trans among many other things.
The trans part is only important because i am seeking romantic relationship, and gender and genitals happen to play big role in my Idea of a romantic relationship.
Otherwise a relationship can be just a friendship and the trans part is then not so important but in this particular case I am romantically attracted to this guy...not just trying to get laid either!

Well Envie if your guy knows he can count on you for a bit of low key support any time he is feeling a bit low, that should help build a good foundation for your relationship.
Is it any different really from a relationship between people who decide to wait until marriage before getting sexual? Or where one partner has health problems?
Hope it all works out, he sounds like he ticks all the boxes. Probably a tradesman too by the way you are smitten!

Karen.


 

Quote from: envie on August 28, 2011, 12:17:22 PM
So, us Trans-anything people are a kind of Delicious apple that is a bit harder to sell

Sure, we probably don't appeal to as wide of a pool.. but I'm not looking for the world to love me, I'm looking for one man to love me.

But that is the way it is with everyone. There are a HUGE range of types and many aren't "mass appeal". Heck, even the type of guy I am interested in is outside of the average... I have shown girlfriends pictures of my "type" and some think it is hot...others not so much... that is how people work, we all like different things. Trans is just another type of different.

QuoteAs for dating gay guys, I could have done that without transitioning, but I am not a gay man. Its that simple.

I don't understand. If he is attracted to you, what does it matter if he identifies as gay or not? I didn't start transitioning to attract more men (I had enough who were really attractive to me who would have LOVED to see me more).... I am doing this for my own personal preferences.

But, I have dated "gay guys" in the past. And they were every much as "straight" as any guy you would run into. Trust me, there is nothing about being gay that automatically turns someone into a feminine flamboyant person. As they say, all the best guys are either gay or married... straight women would LOVE the chance to date certain guys who happen to be gay... but sadly they just don't have a chance. So far from talking with some of my ex's, it seems being trans would definitely put me ahead of a cis female (like I said before, cis girls have some advantages... and so do trans people). 

Are you really going to let semantics stand in the way of being with a partner who you are completely compatible with? Or does it threaten your identity to date someone who is attracted to you for a few masculine qualities you have ?

Personally, if I can find a guy who doesn't mind that I have an adams apple or doesn't absolutely NEED me to hide all of my masculine qualities.... that would be perfect!!! (because, well, I'm not a genetic female... I have lived 28 years in a male body, it isn't all going to vanish in a few months). I don't want to be forced to have surgery after surgery simply because I feel it is the only way to get someone to love me.... like I said, the transition is for ME, not for my partner. I only want to do as much as I need to in order to be happy with myself.

So, yup, gay guys (or bi). They have less issues to work through... won't mind a few masculine qualities... and will generally be able to accept / love me more easily than trying to get a straight guy to love me "in spite" of who i am (who if I was with I would feel like I was always falling short of the type he "really wants"... which would constantly make me stress over my imperfections or slipping up and making a male sound with my voice or whatever else).

Rabbit I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree!
But that is OK, I find it unnecessary to prove or disapprove any statements from any one, so I am not gonna dissect our posts.

My original question was this:

Quote from: envie on August 11, 2011, 11:42:14 PM
is there a good or better way to bring up the issue about the transition. I know every person is different so I am not hoping you'd predict the outcome of this but I am always happy to hear other's experience and advice.
How did you approach the topic, what was their first reaction? How is it with the intimacy in positive outcomes if you don't mind sharing, or pm me if you prefer or not?

I'd suggest we just stick to it.

peace!

envie

Quote from: envie on August 29, 2011, 10:39:36 PM
Rabbit I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree!
But that is OK, I find it unnecessary to prove or disapprove any statements from any one, so I am not gonna dissect our posts.

Hehe no no no, I'm not trying to make you change your mind... just trying to understand it better. I have heard others say they aren't interested in gay guys, just I don't understand it.

Come on now,

I don't need to explain why a straight woman, trans or not, is not interested in a gay guy.
Women think gay guys are good looking because they take care of themselves but women rather
have a day dream of having some one like that in the straight version.
Women don't have what a gay man is looking for in a relationship either.
That is why gay guys are gay in first place, they like guys, flamboyant or not.

How would I attract a gay men, with my male parts? No one knows I have them and I am not about to advertise it either
as I live comfortably just as a woman.

But I am rather at this point curious about your gender Identity and sexual orientation.
Are you just gay man living as a drag ?
Non of this makes sense to me buy the way, except that some man I bisexual.

Quote from: Rabbit on August 19, 2011, 08:23:42 AM
I figure when I am more seriously interested in dating, I will go after gay guys. The ones I have dated in the past were completely like "normal straight guys" (and treated me like "the girl" anyway).... and they won't have an issue with me still having some parts, so win / win (I find it really odd when people here say they aren't attracted to "gay guys"... the only thing that makes them gay is that they are interested in guys ~and a lot are bi~).

i posted previously on my thread somewhere about the first date. i was at my very best. he thought i was pretty, cant remember what he said. cutting the story short he did not notice what i am and he had a good time. this pretty much is somewhat obvious since we kissed a few to end the night. yes i couldnt tell him.

today. driving home, i thought about this and i really just cant say it. its not jsut i cant say it to him, even when I am just by myself i cant say what I am. i mean i hate that word.... i dont know ok. why must i be that, im a woman aint i... am i...

later today, i met with him again. this time i was at my worst. i didnt wear makeup, i wore a very tight shirt vs the jacket that hides my chest. he can see how flat i almost am this time and also my frame. i did this deliberately to spare myself from having to word it out hoping hed jsut... notice. but he still didnt. i asked him again and again to look at me if he sees anything wrong with me and he jsut keeps of fkn saying what am i talking about, i was already like starting to sound wacko there coz of the constant questioning. and it just went romantic again. even more than last time.

i am getting more worried. its getting harder and harder for me to tell him the truth. and the more i feel i dont want him to know the truth. just being with him overshadows the guilt that i feel. i almost dont care anymore no matter how fiendish i am as long as this keeps on going. god, i cant believe i just said those. what is wrong with me. i want to stop doing this but

i guess as my story shows. sometimes even if you dont look eh maybe pass worthy, some men can still not notice. i guess maybe, keeping their minds entertained helps?

Maybe sending him a thankyou card for a great date, and include how miuch you like him, so you don't want to hurt or decieve him?

Karen.