The problem is, as I see it, this.  Iran is predominately Shia and part of their belief is the return of the 12th Iman, Abu al-Qasim Muhammad also called Muhammad al Mahdi.  For this return to happen, there must be an apocalypse and chaos in the world.  President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi and has said that he was "directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi".  Back during the bad old days of the Cold War, the US and USSR were basically held in check by MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) but this guy would welcome destruction.  Personally a madman like Ahmadinejad who is dedicated to creating such chaos with his finger on the "button" of nuclear weapons scares the hell out of me.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html

Oh, btw, don't get me wrong.  I think we have a madman at the helm here also.  And as for paranoid Israel, well if someone had lined up as many TG people as they could find, marched us into "showers" and gassed us, we would probably be a little paranoid, too.

Bev

Bev,

Wouldn't it have been nice had our leaders at least understood these things before we committed troops there?  They didn't even know the difference between Sheite and Suni. We couldn't even place people who spoke the language there.

Yea, we're in a mess. Violence begets violence. We have a memory that lasts only two generations. Then we forget. They have a memory that lasts tens of generations. They never forget.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 27, 2007, 03:12:50 PM
We have a memory that lasts only two generations. Then we forget. They have a memory that lasts tens of generations. They never forget.

One of my political science professors loved the quote, "Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it's mistakes." 

Seems like Deja Vu all over again.

Bev

What?  You mean we shouldn't pay politicians a lot of money?  You mean...  people should be motivated to do things in order to achieve spiritual and societal wealth (respect, dignity, honor) rather than material wealth?  Are you insane?  Are you cracked like that socialist wierdo, Blair?!

Sound the alarm!

~ Blair

I can not fathom while we, the "American Cowboy", have such such a short social memory. Quite honestly, I believe it is because we don't read. Our society is fairly loosely attached in all aspects. Without the reading and study, we tend to forget.

I am amazed by a new program being offered on the tube which really accentuates my point.  I don't remember the title and I probably will never watch it but I did see an ad for it.  I think it is something like "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?"  And it has a woman fumbling over some stupid trivial fact that any adult should know.  Yes, this epitomizes our society. As we dumb down, our fundamentalist beliefs will push us forward (as they do in the middle east).  I would rather knowledge and understanding would be that impetus.

Chin up!

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 27, 2007, 12:35:57 PMWhen we attack, it better be for a damned good reason.  And we should do it with overwhelming force.  The opposition should be completely wiped out.  And unfortunately, in this day and age, countless innocents must suffer the same fate.  We must absolutely and resolutely crush their will to fight back.  Think of Germany and Japan.  Those worked.  Until we are ready to do that, we need to explore every single possibility with every resource we have to prevent it.  Even then, with the religious backing of today's form of opposition, I'm extremely doubtfull that any permanent victory is possible. Those ideas are hard to kill.

Cindi

Absolutely right.  Unless we can do that, and know for all time that we made the right decision, despite all the people who will die -- and innocent people will always die -- we have no business going to war.

In their defense, Iranians aren't very happy with Iran, either.  A couple more of the articles on the right will further support this point.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 27, 2007, 03:12:50 PM
Bev,

Wouldn't it have been nice had our leaders at least understood these things before we committed troops there?  They didn't even know the difference between Sheite and Suni. We couldn't even place people who spoke the language there.

Yea, we're in a mess. Violence begets violence. We have a memory that lasts only two generations. Then we forget. They have a memory that lasts tens of generations. They never forget.

Cindi

And how many more will die senselessly at the behest of an abysmally, criminally ignorant and self-serving Administration, it is wondered?

The Military is at or beyond the 'breaking point'.

How many more must die???

It's not anyone's job to take care of other people's mistakes. I say, leave Iran alone, in two more generations it will be an 'evil' capitalist secular state, like it should be. >

-- Brede

Quote from: Attis on April 07, 2007, 11:00:05 AM
It's not anyone's job to take care of other people's mistakes. I say, leave Iran alone, in two more generations it will be an 'evil' capitalist secular state, like it should be. >

-- Brede

I knew a girl who was a former A-10 pilot whose aircraft was actually hit by a SAM - but she brought the plane back. She's quite a pilot and I pray that she is doing well, for she has passed through much, in this life.

But she described GW1 aptly: "The first oil war."

How many more??   

hmmmm, it's a tricky situation, and i'm concerned about this posturing myself if bush goes in, he does so [without] the support of his own country. not that that's stopping him now in iraq.
if we don't invade iran i doubt any Hezbollah will show up on our doorstep. the best way to [protect] your own rights is to respect the rights of others. [every] terrorist problem we have is because we've [violated] their [national sovereignty]. we kicked the palestinians out of israel [which were their homes and they still hold the deeds btw], we set up the shah in iran and he was [not] a very nice guy to his people, we [occupied] sacred soil in saudi arabia, part of the problem we have with osama bin laden. maybe [understanding] we wouldn't appreciate someone doing that to us here, you could understand why they throw rocks and blow themselves up?

Quote from: rhonda13000 on April 07, 2007, 11:05:00 AM

Quote from: Attis on April 07, 2007, 11:00:05 AM
It's not anyone's job to take care of other people's mistakes. I say, leave Iran alone, in two more generations it will be an 'evil' capitalist secular state, like it should be. >

-- Brede

I knew a girl who was a former A-10 pilot whose aircraft was actually hit by a SAM - but she brought the plane back. She's quite a pilot and I pray that she is doing well, for she has passed through much, in this life.

But she described GW1 aptly: "The first oil war."

How many more??   

Many, many more to come, until evil VC's are allowed to fund private space industries for helium^2 extraction on the Moon and then Neptune and Uranus. > I can see it now, "Neptune Fuel Fleet, Inc. Majority stock holder, Brede Armozel."

-- Brede