I'm bringing this to a new thread from the "So is there a place for she-males?" topic.

(Deep sigh).  I HATE labels but apparently we have to have them.  We used to have these discussions years ago here at Susan's and my point then, as now is that these different labels (TV, CD, TS, etc.) separate us.  They are divisive.  We want to be included in ENDA, we want protection in housing, we want to be able to walk the streets safely and we want people to accept us for what we are but the problem is we cannot agree what we are.   If we must have a label, why can't it be just Transgender or TG.  It's kind of like one of the founding fathers who said, "Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we will surely all hang separately."



Bev

Here, among friends, I don't see that labels are particularly useful. They can be helpful to understand ourselves, but rarely does a generic label fit all. I've found that I genuinely like everyone here. And there are many people that fall all over the place in the spectrum.

For topic threads, I do find it useful. I'm usually not interested in dressing, going out, makeup... that sort of stuff.  However I know that cross dressers are. So classification of topics under labels certainly makes some sense.

I suppose that the labels have more use in the medical field where they like to classify everything.  I see a need there to help guide medical professionals with proper standards for treatment.

For the general public, JEEEZH! They'll take the worst anyone has to offer! So, don't give them anything... just kidding.

Cindi

I agree Bev,

I do not like labels but Transgender works for me now as I have discovered it is more then just cross dressing - it is a part of me.

As for where I am going and if I am in fact TS - well watch this space as I am going somewhere - I just do not know where.

Alice

i love questions like this. there are times when [labels are useful]. for instance, when you\'re first coming out and you realize that you\'re ts and you\'re trying to find the people who are most like you. just like the ugly duckling, we [gravitate to our kind of people]. in that sense, labels help a lot, because we can find people who are like us.
however, as we go along in tg life and [experience things] we start to realize the [more complex aspects of gender identity] and finding the places where the labels [break down completely]. life is complicated! it\'s not [just about men or women] in little [binary constellations] anymore. it\'s so much more than that.
labels [are easy], actually getting to know the [depth behind the labels] is difficult.

Labels are useful in discussions, but can be very lacking when trying to describe an invidual person.

The whole "Who is a true TS" discussion seems quite pointless. Most of the terms are not well defined or at least vary by culture. Even a "woman" is not well defined (sorry for the mtf bias here).

If someone feels that the label TS describes them well, what does it help to fight whether they are really TS or not?

Quote from: Tinkerbell on March 01, 2007, 01:35:49 AM
Labels, IMO, are essential to identify and describe people, things, animals, etc, etc, etc....  *catholics* are Christians...

But that gets confusing. I know of MANY people who call themselves "christians," for example, and yet their actions and attitudes would have you wondering. Heck, *I* am more christian than most christians I know, lol... and yet... I'm not christian.

When people *identify* as a label, it makes for a confusing mess. When a PERSON is a label, it leads to all this confusion.

When ACTIONS and observations are labeled, it makes MUCH more sense: "That person is christian-like" is much more meaningful to me than "that person is a christian."

Kate

Certainly some labels can be useful, for example when I came out as transgender, being able to look for books on that topic or to find groups of other people who identified similarly was useful for gaining a deeper understanding of myself. Ultimately though, I find that labels or identities can be constricting. I guess I kind of think of them as stepping stones to get where you want to be

zythyra

Quote from: Kate on March 01, 2007, 09:13:47 AM

Quote from: Tinkerbell on March 01, 2007, 01:35:49 AM
Labels, IMO, are essential to identify and describe people, things, animals, etc, etc, etc....  *catholics* are Christians...

But that gets confusing. I know of MANY people who call themselves "christians," for example, and yet their actions and attitudes would have you wondering. Heck, *I* am more christian than most christians I know, lol... and yet... I'm not christian.

When people *identify* as a label, it makes for a confusing mess. When a PERSON is a label, it leads to all this confusion.

When ACTIONS and observations are labeled, it makes MUCH more sense: "That person is christian-like" is much more meaningful to me than "that person is a christian."

Kate

And that's where labels get us into trouble.  For example, a person who assigns them self with the label "Catholic" sees them self as christian, but someone who is interpreting the label "Christian" may not agree that Catholics are christians, and the debate would start

Like them or not I feel that labels are essential for us in today's society otherwise we would end up like those robots in the movie "I Robot", now that would be tragic.  I'm proud of the labels assigned to me:

Woman
Female
Girl
Ex Service woman

And I don't even mind it so much when folks use :

Bitch
Slut

to describe me.  I imagine that people have used other more offensive labels to describe me behind my back, and all I do is consider the source and laugh at them - sticks and stones.

We are assigned a label at birth (sometimes incorrectly) and we are assigned a label at death, and a multitude of labels in between.  I think what is important is that we educate those who wrongly use labels with the hope that our actions will have a positive effect.

Just my 2¢ Cdn

Steph

Steph... I am laughing at your slut comment.  Yes, I agree!  I would be thrilled if a couple of my family members would call me a slut! It's a bit off the mark, but at least it bends in the right direction!

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 01, 2007, 06:42:48 PM
Steph... I am laughing at your slut comment.  Yes, I agree!  I would be thrilled if a couple of my family members would call me a slut! It's a bit off the mark, but at least it bends in the right direction!

Cindi

Steph

This will probably not be popular becaue I agree with what Bev has said about labels, but I disagree about not needing them.
I actually talked with Susan about this a while back.

My 2 cents

As someone new to Susan's (and I don't just mean myelf or even SO' or GG', so many new peeps register every day...) anyhow people come here for different reasons and when they do there are going to be different people they want to seak advice from. That being said, without the labels it is difficult being new and knowing who to turn to. It isn't always easy or comfortable to ask.

For the record then:

I am a farm resident, middle aged, low income, married, white female slut. 

Oh my... I'm in a funny mood tonight.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 01, 2007, 11:47:37 PM
Oh my... I'm in a funny mood tonight.

I wish I was

Labels can be both good and bad

Society in general will always try to describe someone (something) by giving it a classification, category that it can be fitted into

It aids to our understanding of what it is or what it does and can be used for educational purposes.

However the problem is that once given a label it is hard to remove. A prisoner once out of jail will be a reformed prisoner or ex-convict, no matter how good their life has become.... the label stays on their record that society creates for them. A cancer sufferer will be in remission of cured once they get the all clear.

Transsexual is one label that is hard to shake off, to me it has described what I did and not what I am, but to society in general, it decribes what I am, a man who has become a woman through surgery.

My birth certificate says Female, my passport and all my official documentation says Female, but I will always be labeled a Transsexual.Perhaps we should focus less on the labels and more on how we can get them removed.

Buffy

PS ...I wish I did have a Slut label or  just plain sex goddess would do

Now just how can you be feeling down when you have such an elegant blue dress like that?  It is beautiful. And you are a knock out wearing it.

Cindi

I agree that labels can sometime be necessary, but that doesn't mean I have to like them.  Mopping floors is necessary, and I do it, but I hate it.  I keep getting asked "Have you figured out what you are yet?"  I hate being put on the spot like that.  I just think I'm me.  I am on a journey of self discovery and though it shares some things in common with others here, it's unlike anyone else's because I am unique.  I am coming to enjoy and embrace who I am and I don't want anyone's label to dictate my course.  If I do that I lose my ability to be authentic.  And that means more to me than anyone else's opinion.

Kristi

Hey Kristi, here's a label that applies to all of us:  "Very Interesting"

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 02, 2007, 12:42:55 AM
Hey Kristi, here's a label that applies to all of us:  "Very Interesting"

Cindi

LOL, Cindi!

That's one label I'll gladly wear.

Kristi

Labels are fine to help us understand who we are. When labels are used to defame and demean then they should never be used. I describe myself as a ->-bleeped-<- and transgender, but that doesn't define who I am as a person. I have met many people who are all over the gender spectrum. I'm comfortable being with all kinds of folks.

Gennee

Quote from: zythyra on March 01, 2007, 12:24:37 PM
Certainly some labels can be useful, for example when I came out as transgender, being able to look for books on that topic or to find groups of other people who identified similarly was useful for gaining a deeper understanding of myself. Ultimately though, I find that labels or identities can be constricting. I guess I kind of think of them as stepping stones to get where you want to be

zythyra

The fact that we change over time shows that there is more to each individual than the label attached to them. The way to find out about someone is to get to know them as people.

Gennee

Labels are useful for describing a person using only a few words.  For example, it could take an entire page or more to describe a transsexual without using the word transsexual, but if you use it, you can pretty much assume a certain number of characteristics.  The problem occurs when different people apply different meanings to the same label.

Melissa