If our physical self was immortal, would we ever have had the need to create religion?  To take that one step further, if we were invincible, would we need religion or faith at all?

So much of what I've heard from the "faithful" speaks of life everlasting.  The promise is always there.  I've often wondered if that belief wasn't there - if when this life on earth ended, that was the end of their life, physically and spiritually - would their faith be as important to them?

My faith would still be just as important.  Immortality is something I don't understand.

I imagine religion would still exist, though it may take different forms. Religion is also good for social cohesion, and to explore concepts about the purpose of life as well as its end.

What would be interesting is whether we would be more or less callous if we were immortal, more I imagine. I bet there would be more war because of less space, and that war would be brutal - enemies captured and eternally starved/tortured. Without death I imagine the world would be horrendous in most every way - we might have  really needed religion then to tame and civilise.

We would be trying to find a way for god to make us mortal. Too much life is too much of a good thing.

Sounds like  the movie "Groundhog Day" to me.  If we were immortal would there be the same desire to breed?  People might put it off for a Century or so, and then die in an accident.  Maybe we would go extinct as a result? I assume we are talking about immortality as regards disease and old age here, effectively eternal youth. 

On the other hand if we just kept breeding, then kept getting older forever, I think we would end up with a religion that sanctioned human sacrifice of the senile  to make room for the young.

Karen.

Quote from: Pica Pica on August 30, 2011, 01:48:28 PM
I bet there would be more war because of less space, and that war would be brutal - enemies captured and eternally starved/tortured.

But if you couldn't kill or even hurt your enemy, why bother to put in all that effort and expense?  One of the determining factors in who wins a war is which side has the most personnel losses, either by death or injury.  Two warring armies where no one dies will go on forever.  That would get pretty old.

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 31, 2011, 01:08:24 AM
We would be trying to find a way for god to make us mortal. Too much life is too much of a good thing.

But most of us want immortality in a spiritual world.  Will we get too much of a good thing there too?

Quote from: justmeinoz on August 31, 2011, 02:30:59 AM
I assume we are talking about immortality as regards disease and old age here, effectively eternal youth. 

For this thread I'll define immortality as aging ending at physical maturity.  You are immune to disease, starvation, physical harm, and anything else that could maim, impair or kill a human. 

As far as population explosion, let's say we have the ability to move to other places or dimensions.  This is kinda necessary for this mental exercise because the earth would be hard to move around in if humans never died.

All that aside, the question is if we weren't mortal, would we still need a faith in a higher power?  Based on what I've heard and read, an awful lot of people with strong faith do things here to get a better deal in the afterlife.

Well if we had "eternal physical maturity", and were invulnerable we would be gods, so I guess everyone would worship themselves.
There wouldn't be any great concern over the deep eternal questions asked by religions now, because we would be around long enough for somebody to have figured out the answer and told everyone else.
I think life would get very boring in a relatively short time. Actually it would be a fair approximation of Hell!

Karen.

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 31, 2011, 12:14:52 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 31, 2011, 01:08:24 AM
We would be trying to find a way for god to make us mortal. Too much life is too much of a good thing.

But most of us want immortality in a spiritual world.  Will we get too much of a good thing there too?

You've got the idea.

Quote from: justmeinoz on September 01, 2011, 07:51:03 AM
Well if we had "eternal physical maturity", and were invulnerable we would be gods, so I guess everyone would worship themselves.

There you go.

That's the two sides of the question. Only god(s) is(are) eternal. For us to eternal and not gods is a complete contradiction. Time-space is four dimensional. To be eternal without being omnipresent makes no sense. A snake infinite in one direction only? Sounds pretty uncomfortable to me. Being eternal and not being all powerful and all present sounds like hell. Just ask the Q from Star Trek.

And if you pay attention to the story in Genesis, the essence of Adam and Eve's sin was wanting to be like god. That's what wanting to be immortal is, wanting to be like god.

If we were immortal, we could just go ask Jesus himself what he meant by this or that.  We wouldn't need priests, ministers or any other religious official to interpret what someone wrote about Jesus a couple thousand years ago.

If we were immortal, we could ask the eye witnesses of ancient disasters exactly what happened and if maybe the explanation written at the time might be a little off, considering all that we've learned about things like locusts, meteorites, tsunamis and such.  Maybe they wouldn't be saying it was God's wrath.

If we were immortal, Ask Adam & Eve, "Exactly what did happen way back and was there really a talking snake?"

And all this knowledge would eliminate the need for faith, at least in all things earthly.

I don't think immortality would eliminate our desire to know our creator(s), although it would certainly change our perception of the world.

Though immortality wouldn't necessarily mean there would be no death. You would still have accidents, murder, etc.

My religious faith/belief is not about afterlife but about the here and now. About how loving others improves my life today. I know a lot of Christian people seem to focus on the whole everlasting life thing but that has nothing to do with why I am a Christian. I honestly think people looking to religion as a way to "live forever" are missing the whole point but if it makes them love their neighbor just a bit more, I'm not going to argue with them about it.

So to answer your question, I would have my same faith/belief even if we never died.

Perhaps...

I posit that if we were truely immortal we would seek out the one thing denied us:


Death.

Kia Ora,

But if we were truly immortal we would have no concept of "death"...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Lily on September 01, 2011, 09:03:36 PM
I don't think immortality would eliminate our desire to know our creator(s), although it would certainly change our perception of the world.

Though immortality wouldn't necessarily mean there would be no death. You would still have accidents, murder, etc.

Kia Ora Lily,

Immortal=Not subjected to "death" !

Quote from: Julie Marie on August 30, 2011, 01:19:19 PM
If our physical self was immortal, would we ever have had the need to create religion?  To take that one step further, if we were invincible, would we need religion or faith at all?

So much of what I've heard from the "faithful" speaks of life everlasting.  The promise is always there.  I've often wondered if that belief wasn't there - if when this life on earth ended, that was the end of their life, physically and spiritually - would their faith be as important to them?

Kia Ora Julia,

Interesting topic....Well from what I gather.........

If we were immortal/invincible, life would be empty-free of all desires-we would neither want nor need anything including a belief in a god... However if such a belief did happen to arise, it would differ greatly from the belief many now have of a god/creator...

One should ask themselves why would there even be such a thing as "faith"[in the religious sense] ?
To have "faith" in what and what for ?

But as usual I could be wrong...

Metta Zenda

A more interesting question would be if we were immortal, or our ancestors were also immortal, why would we want to reproduce?

Would there really be any need to have children?  Why have a next generation?

Quote from: Zenda on September 01, 2011, 11:24:40 PMIf we were immortal/invincible, life would be empty-free of all desires-we would neither want nor need anything including a belief in a god... However if such a belief did happen to arise, it would differ greatly from the belief many now have of a god/creator...

Well, we have to suspend our present beliefs about a higher power, life, death, infinity and so on, in this mental exercise.  Then we would have to imagine we were never taught those things that are related to our mortality.  The fact everything on this earth dies creates a reality very different than if some of the species here were immune to dying.  And I'm not thinking a "Death Becomes Her" type of immortality. 

So yeah, I guess we'd become god-like, but would we even have a word for what we now think of as god?  I suppose we would never need a higher power because our own immortality would preclude that.

Mormons believe something like the men will have 100 wives in the next life and there's some correlation between achieving that and fighting against acceptance of homosexuality.  Therefore they vehemently fight any and all things that would make being gay okay.

Some Muslims believe there's 30 virgins (or something like that) waiting for them in the afterlife, so what's the big deal about blowing yourself up and killing your enemy right along with you?

Neither belief can be proven and both are therefore real only through faith.  Our belief in the afterlife causes us to do a lot of things we'd never do if we were immortal because, if we were immortal, the concept of the afterlife wouldn't exist.  There would be no reason for it.

Quote from: cynthialee on September 01, 2011, 10:13:53 PM
Perhaps...

I posit that if we were truely immortal we would seek out the one thing denied us:

Death.

That's what I've been saying.

Quote from: Zenda on September 01, 2011, 10:41:57 PM
Kia Ora,

But if we were truly immortal we would have no concept of "death"...

Metta Zenda

Perhaps not by that word, but we would long for an end to the endlessness of life.

Quote from: Lisbeth on September 02, 2011, 12:26:33 AM

Quote from: cynthialee on Today at 03:13:53 pm
Perhaps...

I posit that if we were truely immortal we would seek out the one thing denied us:

Death.

That's what I've been saying.

Quote from: Zenda on Today at 03:41:57 pm
Kia Ora,

But if we were truly immortal we would have no concept of "death"...

Metta Zenda
Perhaps not by that word, but we would long for an end to the endlessness of life.

Kia Ora Lisbeth,

But why would we ?

And how could there ever be a concept of "death" if we never die ?

What example would there be for an immortal to go by ?

An immortal/invincible would have no worldly needs or desires...

There would be no concept of "endlessness" life... For an immortal "life" just "is"...

Plus we would all be "asexual' and breeding [ should the need arise-possibly to colonise other galaxies ] would be by parthenogenetic means...

I happen to be asexual and I'm working on becoming immortal-fingers crossed XX XX 

Metta Zenda

I still think Immortals would want to have sex. 

If you ever saw "My Stepmother Is An Alien" with Kim Bassinger, there's a scene where her "immortals" are up in the clouds speaking to her and one sneezes.  Then he remarks about how interesting that experience was.  I'd think Immortals would seek out all sorts of experiences or we'd get very bored.

On a tangent to this, the immortal concept would allow for first person answers to a whole lot more than religion.  How were the Pyramids of Egypt built?  Why are the pyramids of the Aztecs so similar? Where did Modern Man come from and did they mate with the Neanderthals?  And a whole bunch of other stuff.