We're all gonna have a wide variety of opinions on this topic ... isn't it fun!

Anyway, I'm sure wanting to be a cat and/or lizard person could certainly, by some psychological standards, be considered "not normal". However, there exists this little magic book that the psychologists use and Transsexualism, ->-bleeped-<-, GID, etc. ARE in it, whereas lizard people are not. That is the difference when you come down to brass tacks.

And since most of humanity as a whole has not gotten over the whole gender binary thing, it's a total hot button and is quite "messy" in that it spills out into other arenas. For instance - all the gender-designated public areas ... restrooms, dressing rooms, locker rooms. Also, legal issues that involve gender to a degree - birth certificates, marriage licenses (marriages in general), medical records, etc. etc.

If you want to go lizard, it's really quite simple - you just go down to the tattoo/body mod place and walk out a "freak" ... you're labeled as such by the rest of society and you live with it. You don't have to change your ID or worry about what bathroom to use or who you can marry. Simple.

Same goes for people who want a different nose or bigger tits or anything else that enough money and a plastic surgeon can handle. You're not changing anything "legal" about yourself, just your appearance.

Yes it's majorly screwed up. I had been living full time as a woman for over 3 years and was required to see a therapist for over 2 months and multiple visits to determine if I was transgendered enough to get HRT. Uh HELLO PEOPLE I have been living as a woman full time for 3 YEARS, don't you think I might be ready for HRT now? I had no problem having some facial feminization done with no letter but God forbid I want my body feminized.

So now I have been officially diagnosed as having a mental disorder. This will likely affect my ability to get health insurance etc in the future over this crap. I had NO mental issues with being transgendered, I just wanted to try HRT legally. And the sad thing is: at least on the MTF side there are a LOT of TG people fighting to keep it this way? O.o

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 02, 2011, 06:45:58 PM
I wish Michael Jackson was seeing a therapist......

He did. Dr. Feelgood.
  Joelene

Quote from: brandnewman on September 02, 2011, 04:55:58 PM
I always find it interesting every time someone who complains that other people judge them based on their appearance (gender, etc.) has absolutely no problem judging someone else based on their appearance. Double standards, much?

this.  not to mention the fact that your aesthetics =/= everyone's aesthetics

Quote from: Matthew J. F on September 02, 2011, 03:37:20 PM
So in order for us to have top surgery we must attend so many therapy sessions before we can get a note to indicate that we are ready to have the surgery, this also includes bottom as well.

While it's ok for people like Michael Jackson to get as many cosmetic surgeries as he wants without being ordered to go to countless of therapy sessions to get a note.  With so many surgeries that I considered to be unnecessary (sorry but I truly think it was, since I found no deformity on his face) he was able to get them.

Prior to his death he went from looking like this:

To being this:

I just bumped into this page http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10005422.html?tag=re1.galleries and notice this mug shot


So my question is this. We have to essentially be examined by mental health professionals to determine if we are mentally stable to have surgery that can improve the quality of our lives yet people like Michael Jackson and this guy are allowed to do things to their faces without getting a mental health consultation? How does that work?

When I look at these kind of picture I can't help but to  get pissed off!

In that first picture of Michael Jackson, he has already had plastic surgery.

Quote from: Nygeel on September 02, 2011, 05:36:45 PM
Some doctors do not require a letter from a therapist (at least for top surgery). I think that a therapist's letter shouldn't be needed for surgery or body mods.

I guess my question is are you mad at these people for having body mods, or are you mad at the medical system which oppresses trans people constantly?

It pisses me off that I have to pay out of my own pocket for these therapy sessions (which I don't have since I am currently disabled due medical reasoning, and unable to work because of it) just so that I can get approved of getting these surgeries (again It's extremely hard to fish out 5 thousand dollars and up when you're unable to work, and that so many insurance wont accept it) that are necessary, and can improve the quality of my life yet these people who want to change their entire appearance from being human to being a feline or a demon like creature probably don't have to spend 1 day in therapy to get these procedures done.


Additional.....

Have anyone heard of bride of wildenstein? It was told that she spent over 4 million dollars on plastic surgrry to end up looking like this.


People like her, Michael Jackson, and that demon like guy probably have a legit mental illness that could have been avoid had they gone through the same mental health examination like the rest of us are required to have top/bottom surgery.

Quote from: sneakersjay on September 03, 2011, 08:37:12 AM
In that first picture of Michael Jackson, he has already had plastic surgery.

Wow he was hot too.

Quote from: Matthew J. F on September 03, 2011, 11:20:52 AM


People like her, Michael Jackson, and that demon like guy probably have a legit mental illness that could have been avoid had they gone through the same mental health examination like the rest of us are required to have top/bottom surgery.

Ugh, I've seen pictures of her, she must get stares. I've shown pictures of her to my mom to show her the horrors of plastic surgery, she thinks they're photoshopped lawl

I thinks its a matter of money,

if you got alot of money then you can have as many surgery you want.
every surgery is a risk but having too many is diffently not good.
people with a normal amount of money might get 1 surgery like that in there life for something they felt REALLY sad about.
but people who got so many money that they can go correct every single detail dont think about it the same way so it actually dosent seam to matter so much to them.

What we have learned from this thread:

1)  If you have enough money, the rules don't apply to you.
2)  If you are a certifiable freak, the rules don't apply to you.
3)  If you are a certifiable freak who wants to be normal, the rules apply to you.
4)  If you are desperate enough and you can temporarily sustain condition 1) or 2) then the rules don't apply to you.
5)  If you are normal, the rules apply to you.

Conclusion:  If you are crazy enough, or filthy rich, then the rules don't apply to you.

I'm very much "my body, my choice." Don't like it, don't look.

I did find a guy that got hormones, top, and bottom surgery taken care of by medicaid so it can't be impossible.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on September 04, 2011, 12:12:28 AM
What we have learned from this thread:

1)  If you have enough money, the rules don't apply to you.
2)  If you are a certifiable freak, the rules don't apply to you.
3)  If you are a certifiable freak who wants to be normal, the rules apply to you.
4)  If you are desperate enough and you can temporarily sustain condition 1) or 2) then the rules don't apply to you.
5)  If you are normal, the rules apply to you.

Conclusion:  If you are crazy enough, or filthy rich, then the rules don't apply to you.

This I seen a lot of times with a lot of situations.  I inherited my Dad's Neanderthal face, filled out by age.  No amount of FFS or other plastic surgery is going change much here. 
  Joelene

UHH! Those people need their mental state evaluated!!! Hey, I love tattoos, I'd love to have my arms & legs covered with tatts, but all the piercings and body mod, doing that to your face, woah, that's just too much for me.

Quote from: hwytoaster on September 04, 2011, 12:31:07 AM
UHH! Those people need their mental state evaluated!!! Hey, I love tattoos, I'd love to have my arms & legs covered with tatts, but all the piercings and body mod, doing that to your face, woah, that's just too much for me.

You know I could find hundreds of negative posts online about transgendered people exactly like what you just posted. I really just don't get this......

Quote from: SnailPace on September 02, 2011, 04:21:22 PM
I generally approve of trans people going through phycological steps because then surgeries can be covered by insurance, since it is a medical procedure.

Most Americans still can't get their trans-related surgeries covered by insurance.

Quote from: Arch on September 04, 2011, 01:06:06 AM
Most Americans still can't get their trans-related surgeries covered by insurance.

And a LOT of Americans don't have any insurance, much less some deluxe plan that would ever actually cover this.

I've found procedures that insurance doesn't cover end up being priced reasonably because the doctors performing them KNOW people aren't going to pay absurd prices. Insurance in America doubles the workload of the doctor/staff trying to file/code/get paid. Then many times 6 months later they are still trying to get their money. My recent experience, I was on the table in the ER for 2 hours for cosmetic surgery and the hospital fees including anesthesia were $1400. They said if it was a "non-elective surgery" the hospital charges 3 times this much. I found the same thing true when I paid cash for knee surgery years ago, the doctor gave me a huge break ($1800 rather than $4800) but the hospital ganked me, charging full "insurance rates" of $5800 for a 1 hour operation. And that was 25 years ago.

We really would be much better off keeping insurance OUT of these procedures, at least in the US. I wonder if we wouldn't be better off without health insurance all together but that's another issue....

I agree that it's terrible that trans people frequently have to go to great lengths to be allowed surgery. However, I think anger about that would be better directed at the medical establishment (etc.) that maintains that status quo, rather than at other people who are lucky enough to be allowed to change their bodies how they want — whether you like the changes they made or not.

... and lo there was hypocrisy among the oppressed...

Seriously though, there are a couple things that irk the heck out of me regarding body modification.

A person can get "pectoral implants" and other silicone implants at their local plastic surgeon to "look" like they have more muscle, but in order to get the sort of implants this guy has, to create bumps and so on they have to go to someone who isn't a medical professional in most countries because "medical professionals" risk losing their license for "disfiguring" their patients.

Similarly, ear pointing v.s. 36MM (yes, MM) breasts (The world's largest fake breasts. 20 pounds Each!)
One a plastic surgeon is not allowed to do, the other a plastic surgeon "is" allowed to do.
(Care to guess which one will cause severe back pain among other problems?)

And in both the pectoral implants and 36MM cases, there was no 1 year RLE, no 3 months at the therapist's office.

I mean, I wouldn't want to look like Cat, but if Cat wants to look like that and is able to go for it, then more power to him for it!
It's not my place to judge.
But I do think it hypocritical, the system we have, and many of the comments we see regarding body mods from trans people.
Seriously.
It's not your place to judge what other people do with their own bodies!

(Mind you, I think more therapy should be required for more plastic surgeries and body mods to make sure the patients fully grasp what they're getting up to and are doing it for their own reasons, but that's just me and my opinion.)

Quote from: Stephe on September 04, 2011, 12:53:28 AM
You know I could find hundreds of negative posts online about transgendered people exactly like what you just posted. I really just don't get this......

This.  I can't understand the amount of negativity towards other people's personal decisions regarding their body.  Hypocritical if you ask me. 

Those people became obsessed with altering their face and overdid it, they could live happy lives without it, it's not the same. Cosmetic surgery is fine in moderation, but they should've been smart enough to realise what effects of having too much of it would have.

That wasn't directed at the guy with horns, but his surgery shows what kind of personality he has.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 04, 2011, 05:21:51 PM
That wasn't directed at the guy with horns, but his surgery shows what kind of personality he has.

A horny personality?