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A WARNING FOR THOSE CONSIDERING MtF SRS

Started by SandraJane, September 02, 2011, 05:57:28 AM

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Re: Joyce

Quote from: melissa42013 on September 02, 2011, 08:50:42 AM
I have come to resent to so called "Standards of Care". I feel that I am an adult and fully capable of making my own educated decisions regarding how I choose to live my life. I resent that I have to spend so much time with therapists who act as gate keepers to "officially" start me on HRT, that I have to do a year of RLT, and then get two letters from professionals that go into a lot of detail to get SRS. (assuming you follow the rules)

If I want to get just about any other type of plastic surgery I can just go talk to a doctor. I don't need to be checked out and certified by a therapist to get it. Just as there are a few people who get obsessed with plastic surgery there will be people who do SRS for the "wrong" reason. But for gods sake, we are adults and we should be held responsible for our own decisions. If I decided to have my penis medially enlarged, and it caused erectile dysfunction, that is my decision.

The SOC kept me from seeking care for many many years as it seemed like just too restrictive of a process. So for years I held off on doing anything and now at 38 am wishing I would have started earlier. (like most others). It is wise to seek therapy in this process, absolutely. Should it be required, perhaps on a certain level. But at this point in my life I am pretty certain what I need to do and the process is just going to get in the way. I started HRT on my own and THEN elected to seek therapy and medical supervision for my own reasons. That is my decision and I don't like the idea of having the fears of the actions of "the least common denominator" dictate what I have to do. If this were applied to everything we would end up having to wear helmets to drive a car!

Ok, that was my rant...... begin the abuse.... lol
-M

     To hold off for years because the SOC are too restrictive strikes me as a silly statement.  The SOC is not that difficult to navigate if you simply set out from the start to complete the requirements.

      You start with therapy, according to the SOC, a minimum of 12 visits is required.  If the sessions are a week apart, that's only 3 months.   The therapists job is to determine whether you do, in fact, suffer from GID or are there other mitigating things in your head that may result in you believing that you are GID.  This is probably not that difficult.  At that point, they will generally write you a referral for HRT.

       All you have to do after that is to convince them that you have been living as a female in order to get a letter of recommendation for a surgeon.  Then a second letter from another therapist.  The second may only have to see you once and may simply write a letter of concurrence with the first (basically, that they agree).

      The reasons for all this are simple:  After surgery, are you able to live and function in your preferred gender role? (female).  Can you hold a job and support yourself?  This is not that difficult.

      No one has brought this up, yet, so I will.  I can make a case that the SOC is in place to protect the Doctors as much or more than the patients.  Once the SOC has been satisfied, the Dr. has legal protections against lawsuits.  Without them, the Dr. is vulnerable.  Despite what you may believe, not every Dr. has the patient's best interests at heart.  Some of them will do pretty much anything you are able to pay for.

       GCS is not "cosmetic" surgery.  It is life-altering.  It completely changes the way you view yourself and your life.  In many cases, it completely cures GID and clears your mind.

        If you have a bunch of other mental problems, it won't fix those.  The SOC is in place to help you be certain that GCS is right for you.

       Start making phone calls to therapists.  Tell them that you've been living full time and self medicating and want to start through the process "legally".  Tell them you are willing to commit to 12 sessions, but you want your letters after that if they find that you are of sound mind.  Tell them you seem to be getting along fine and have no other issues that need to be fixed, other than GID.

       You can complete the "rigorous" standards of the SOC in about the same time as the waiting period for some surgeons.  This is not some process that takes decades.  I've personally known a number of women who have completed this in a year or a little less.

       You can find a therapist who will agree to this, *if* you really are "of sound mind".  Make enough calls and explain what you're looking for.  Don't leave them guessing and don't waste time and money with them if they can't agree up front.  What you're asking is not unreasonable.

       In order to fulfill the "full time" requirement, you do not have to wear makeup, a padded bra or a dress.  You do have to present as female, change your name to one that at least sounds female and convince others that you are, in fact, female.  Lots of women don't wear makeup, padded bras or dresses.  They are, however, women.

       If you just want to continue living as a man, consider an orchie.  I don't believe there is much required to get that and it will certainly solve the male hormone problem.

       If you're going to take a position, at least get your facts straight.   :)

       Gender surgery is a serious, life-changing event that should not be looked upon lightly and the SOC are simple, easy to fulfill and make sense.
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AbraCadabra

Hi Joice,
what you outlined is the US position (my best guess) so I may not comment on that.
HOWEVER --- it is not e.g. the South African, German or Swiss position AT ALL.

So long we clear on that all is fine by me.

In SA you do not get HRT before 1 year full time on RLE - an absolute joke!
The 12 sessions are much the same but need to coincide to 12 month minimum seeing a psychiatrist.
2 t-girls I know had to spend 3 years +/- !!

Sexologists or other therapist do NOT count at all to get local GRS.
You do NOT get a referral letter either. It is a gatekeeper / GRS team 'hand shake' affair of a 3 liner email you will NEVER see, even if you are begging for it.

If you get the "green light", after ~12 month, you still have to speak to another 'forum' (the monthly GRS meeting at the Academic State Hospital) and you may be rejected there - DESPITE WHAT YOU BEEN TOLD BEFORE BY THE PSYCHIATRIST, you had seen > 1 year!

What you are then being 'labelled' is GIDNOS, you have not touched on in your précis.

GIDNOS stands for "GID Not Otherwise Specified", and once you got that, - the door to SRS will slamm closed.

Just so to add some perspective as to how SoC can be interpreted, honey. In my case it happened just so, that's how I know. And so much for SoC in the hands of some experts.

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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spacial

Quote from: Re: Joyce on September 04, 2011, 09:57:53 AM

       If you just want to continue living as a man, consider an orchie.  I don't believe there is much required to get that and it will certainly solve the male hormone problem.

This is where I have a serious problem.

The argument for the RLE is to ensure that you do indeed want this and that the process is irreversable. There are no similar requirements for other plastic surgery, because it is argued that others are reversable.

But most of the SRS is reversable, other than the 'orchie'.

I have no problem with being interviewed, even over a period of time, to ensure I am, in fact sane. But I think your argument falls down on this bit. (I can't believe I just made a references to a bit  :laugh: )





Just read Axelle's contribution. Good points. I avoided going into that area myself, because I felt it would complicate the discussion. But thank you Axelle for adding that.
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FairyGirl

Quote from: spacial on September 04, 2011, 02:02:14 PMBut most of the SRS is reversable, other than the 'orchie'

lol none of it is reversible.  Most of the inside of the penis is discarded.  The skin is totally rearranged, turned inside out, and sewn together in a completely different configuration.  A small portion of the glans is cut away with the "bare wires" exposed, tucked inside the clitoral hood and the rest of it is discarded as well.  Sex Reassignment Surgery for women makes the little male wee-wee thingy and attached dangly bits go bye-bye FOREVER (and good riddance).  To me part of the beauty of it was that it was completely irreversible.  Thank the gods.

479 days (1 year, 3 months, 25 days) after my first therapist appointment I checked into the hospital in Lower Bucks County and had my irreversible surgery.  Sure there were some hoops to jump through, but I would have jumped through 10 times more to get what I needed.  I was surprised at how easy it was actually.  Far from being "cosmetic surgery", it was the procedure that saved my life.  Anyone can argue otherwise, but then they didn't live in my body so they have no idea how adversely the insidious affliction of the transsexual birth condition affected me.  I am cured now and I feel as though life has just begun.  One of the greatest things about it is in knowing that no one can ever take that cure away from me (irreversible).
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Re: Joyce

Quote from: Axélle on September 04, 2011, 01:51:54 PM
Hi Joice,
what you outlined is the US position (my best guess) so I may not comment on that.
HOWEVER --- it is not e.g. the South African, German or Swiss position AT ALL.

So long we clear on that all is fine by me.

Hi Axell,

     The abbreviation was used "SOC", which are generally regarded as the International (Not U.S.) Standards of Care, found here:

     http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

     Please note, I was not the one who originated this term in this discussion, the OP to whom I directed my comments was.

In SA you do not get HRT before 1 year full time on RLE - an absolute joke!
The 12 sessions are much the same but need to coincide to 12 month minimum seeing a psychiatrist.
2 t-girls I know had to spend 3 years +/- !!

      I am not familiar with procedures in South America (SA).  I was discussing the SOC, Standards of Care.  It would appear that there are substantial problems with the Health Care Systems in many countries, but those have little to do with the WPATH Standards of Care.  Mistreatment in those countries is tragic, but is really a political discussion related to health care in those countries.


GIDNOS stands for "GID Not Otherwise Specified", and once you got that, - the door to SRS will slamm closed.

Just so to add some perspective as to how SoC can be interpreted, honey. In my case it happened just so, that's how I know. And so much for SoC in the hands of some experts.

    This is why many people, from many places, travel to other countries, such as Thailand or the U.S. to buy their own treatment.  I believe you still need to meet the International Standards of Care referenced above to do so.

Axelle
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Re: Joyce

Quote from: spacial on September 04, 2011, 02:02:14 PM
This is where I have a serious problem.

The argument for the RLE is to ensure that you do indeed want this and that the process is irreversable. There are no similar requirements for other plastic surgery, because it is argued that others are reversable.

    Just to be clear, the discussion centers around the International Standards of Care and their requirements to qualify for Gender Confirmation Surgery.  They are found here:

     http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

     The requirements for RLE (Real Life Experience) are found on page 17 and 18.  The need for that is due to employment, personal, marital and social consequences of gender change.  Basically, can you function in your chosen gender and live the life you want to live to make you happy?   If you can't support yourself and all your friends and family abandon you, then perhaps the surgery isn't a good idea for you. 

      Reading those 2 pages is quite enlightening and the reasons for the RLE seem quite reasonable and well thought out.

But most of the SRS is reversable, other than the 'orchie'.

     There is not one part of this surgery that is reversible, to the best of my knowledge, as presented very well by Fairy Girl.  I have also complied with all the Standards of Care that she did and, like her, I found that the surgery is a complete cure for Gender Identity Disorder.  In fact, this cure is referenced in the International Standards of Care. 

I have no problem with being interviewed, even over a period of time, to ensure I am, in fact sane. But I think your argument falls down on this bit. (I can't believe I just made a references to a bit  :laugh: )

      I never intended to suggest any treatment for you or anyone else when I suggested an orchie.  It's just a way to treat the disorder that doesn't require as much paperwork.  As I've never undergone that procedure alone, I am not qualified to comment on it's effectiveness.

     
Just read Axelle's contribution. Good points. I avoided going into that area myself, because I felt it would complicate the discussion. But thank you Axelle for adding that.

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Dinky_Di

Quote from: spacial on September 04, 2011, 02:02:14 PM
But most of the SRS is reversable, other than the 'orchie'.

News to me......

Like to see them try and reverse what was done, considering bits were cut up, moved about, left overs thrown out and probably incinerated.  No hope to reverse whatsoever.  Not that I would ever want to try as I'm quite happy with my new anatomy.
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AbraCadabra

Dinky,
maybe the post was referring to phaloplasty?

Just a thought, I think it's been done. Yet it NEVER be the original, eh :-)

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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AbraCadabra

Hi Val,
it's actually been done, the now again guy (a rich Arab person) also claiming it was someone else's fault misguiding him after his divorce... etc. and wanted to be reimbursed.
(All I recall, and actually best forgotten)

There will NO emotional reimbursement, you so right about that.

Maybe, I was thinking, the Arabian world for women, must have been one big motivation to go back to male after the poor girl got the full taste of it?

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Dinky_Di

Brrrrr, goosebumps just thinking about a reversal.........definitely, positively, not now not ever....
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AbraCadabra

Dinky,
sounds like de-transitioning to the power of the cube, eh?

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Dinky_Di

Quote from: Axélle on September 05, 2011, 03:52:04 AM
Dinky,
sounds like de-transitioning to the power of the cube, eh?

Axelle

Lol.........and some.
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Sunnynight

Has lizard man been mentioned in this thread? I think these threads are always empty without an obligatory lizard man reference.


He didn't require any letters of approval from self-appointed gatekeepers, why should we?
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spacial

Quote from: FairyGirl on September 04, 2011, 03:24:13 PM
lol none of it is reversible

Quote from: Re: Joyce on September 04, 2011, 06:20:17 PM
There is not one part of this surgery that is reversible, to the best of my knowledge, as presented very well by Fairy Girl.

Quote from: Dinky_Di on September 04, 2011, 09:45:49 PM
News to me......

Like to see them try and reverse what was done, considering bits were cut up, moved about, left overs thrown out and probably incinerated.  No hope to reverse whatsoever.  Not that I would ever want to try as I'm quite happy with my new anatomy.

None of you are sticking to the point. On these bases, nothing is reversable. Non sequitur under the circumstances.

My point:

Quote from: spacial on September 04, 2011, 02:02:14 PM
But most of the SRS is reversable, other than the 'orchie'.

Was in reference to previous points, that the need for the intrusive interference is that SRS is irreversable.

I was making the point, in part, in response to the assertion by Joyce about orchie, that the only part of SRS that is not reversable is the orchie.

If you wish to extend the logic into wider philosophy, then we will be here forever. (And I doubt many of you could put up with me for that amount of time).
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spacial

Quote from: Re: Joyce on September 04, 2011, 06:20:17 PM
Just to be clear, the discussion centers around the International Standards of Care and their requirements to qualify for Gender Confirmation Surgery.  They are found here:

     http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

     The requirements for RLE (Real Life Experience) are found on page 17 and 18.  The need for that is due to employment, personal, marital and social consequences of gender change.  Basically, can you function in your chosen gender and live the life you want to live to make you happy?   If you can't support yourself and all your friends and family abandon you, then perhaps the surgery isn't a good idea for you. 

      Reading those 2 pages is quite enlightening and the reasons for the RLE seem quite reasonable and well thought out.

Again, we're back to the issue, self appointed individuals, to whom approval must be sought, based upon what we might do in the future.

My life is my own. I don't need anyone's permission to exist. I chose each of my several careers. It is my choice to decide where I live, how I live and with whom. It is not the place of others to presume to decree if, in their opinion, I will be capable of living, what is, in their opinion, a reasonable life.

Those sorts of supervisory approaches are fine for children and necessary. Though I will argue, strongly, that in the case of children, parents should normally be given that authority.

But to impose thoise sort of restrictions onto adults is insulting, demeaning and frankly, anti-democratic.


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AbraCadabra

#35
+ 1

This argument seems circular by now.
It always goes back to the assumption that these 'selfappointed individuals' are acting in a patient's best interest alone.
This assumption in my experience is simply NOT the case.
And in particular if one may not even be able to choose from a number of individuals as is the case in my place. It makes a mockery of the a possibly reasonable idea (SoC).

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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spacial

On that point Axelle, I agree with you completely.

As an adult I should be free to make decisions about my own life.

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