prettyqueer

For the Love of Transmisandry

by Jack Radish on September 6, 2011

http://www.prettyqueer.com/2011/09/06/for-the-love-of-transmisandry/

Let me paint a picture you may have seen before. A college campus nearby is having some sort of trans event. Let's say it's Trans Day of Remembrance. Everyone is crowded around a stage and a white trans man steps up to the mic and introduces "our own awesome trans man poet and activist whatever, let's worship him, let's say his name is Aydyn" and everyone claps and cheers and a couple folks in the audience scream out his name.

Funny, the big events in my neck of the woods (at least in the past) have been completely dominated by the trans women. And many of them are trans women of color.

Quote from: Arch on September 06, 2011, 03:16:40 PM
Funny, the big events in my neck of the woods (at least in the past) have been completely dominated by the trans women. And many of them are trans women of color.

That may be true arch but i am sure you were invited to the party.

Quote from: Amazon D on September 06, 2011, 08:16:16 PMThat may be true arch but i am sure you were invited to the party.

They were community events, so everyone was technically invited. But that doesn't mean that I felt welcome. Or that I felt represented at all. I did hear that things loosened up a little at the last event (or maybe it was last year's DOR), but for me it's too little, too late.

I guess I'm just saying that this guy's experience, obnoxious though it is, is far from universal.

ETA: Oh, and I meant to point out that this was a college event. Does the guy really expect for it not to be geared mainly toward college people?

You know I've actually met trans men like what they were describing but only one on one.  Each time they came off as total jerks to really just women in general.  The kinda guy trying to hard to prove he is a manly man and needs a good ol fashioned bar ass kicking.  I roomed with one for awhile in the city and he treated his MtF partner who has the job paying for everything like total garbage.  Heck, in the end he treated me like garbage and that is part of why I left asap.

Sadly if it wasn't for this forum and getting to read the FtM forums here?  I'd have to wonder if any of the transitioning FtM knew what it was to really be a man and how to treat a women.

In my community groups, we go completely the other way, Korlee. I was always shut down IMMEDIATELY by other trans guys any time I tried to discuss my issues with women. It would have been valuable for me to work through some of these feelings with other guys, specifically other trans guys, but that hasn't happened. These experiences have left me very reluctant to even mention this stuff to my two closest trans friends, who worship women. I allude to my "issues with women," but I don't talk about any of those issues because I know that it would make my friends uncomfortable. But we should be able to talk about this stuff in trans groups, especially support groups if not social gatherings.

The place where i saw this the most was at camp trans where the FTM's had an IN with the lesbians but the MTF's were left at camp trans and never invited to the party and also i never wanted the FTM's to get involved in our communication with the wonderful womyn at MWMF. I had a nice time at fest in 99 but then camp trans came marching in and all hell broke loose.  After that i never went back to fest except in 2000 where i was invited to help set up because they needed help and i was nearby. I then protested the protesters at camp trans and then i left and haven't been back since.. I won't ever go back to fest unless i am invited..

Oh an i wrote the follow to that jack raddish guy but he never let my post go through'

here is what i wrote.

Thanks jack, well kinda September 6, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Jack i wrote a long email i want you to read it privately, so please email me.

But for here i thank you for what you say which is so true, but you also know your fighting for us poor MTFs at camp trans has been another way you have used us MTFs and left us post op MTFs out of the party. You see jack we do respect the womyn at MWMF. We never wanted to force ourselves on anyone. Camp trans has been our worst enemy. Its almost like it was planned that way. We knew not to be sharing about our penis at fest. We know the pain women/womyn have suffered for eons. So i do hope what you say you learned, was learned from your mistake in helping us poor MTFs at camp trans.

0  0

Quote from: Arch on September 07, 2011, 09:30:11 AM
In my community groups, we go completely the other way, Korlee. I was always shut down IMMEDIATELY by other trans guys any time I tried to discuss my issues with women. It would have been valuable for me to work through some of these feelings with other guys, specifically other trans guys, but that hasn't happened. These experiences have left me very reluctant to even mention this stuff to my two closest trans friends, who worship women. I allude to my "issues with women," but I don't talk about any of those issues because I know that it would make my friends uncomfortable. But we should be able to talk about this stuff in trans groups, especially support groups if not social gatherings.

I think things should be discussed but in the right context and in the right way.  I see so many as I noted one on one FtM peeps that just want to bitch about women because it is the -guy- thing to do or some other bs.  They just try so hard to be the man taking care of everything, be the boss, etc.  And there is just so much more to being a man then that.  The FtM's I meet just come off as total selfish jerks and I'd have thought that even if I was on the other side of the fence still. 

Heck, the transgender support group here split the FtM's and MtF's apart for that exact reason.  Which is sad because they had things to teach one another and could even do things such as exchange clothes.  I was a rather skinny person to start with so most of my clothes would have fit them and saved them amazing amounts of cash and I am sure the same could have been done in return.

These things should be talked about and extremes should be stamped out period.

Quote from: Korlee on September 09, 2011, 01:18:46 PM
I think things should be discussed but in the right context and in the right way.  I see so many as I noted one on one FtM peeps that just want to bitch about women because it is the -guy- thing to do or some other bs.  They just try so hard to be the man taking care of everything, be the boss, etc.  And there is just so much more to being a man then that.  The FtM's I meet just come off as total selfish jerks and I'd have thought that even if I was on the other side of the fence still. 

I'm sure that there's a certain amount of unconscious distancing that some FTMs go through, and they wind up acting like macho jerks. I've known a couple of guys like that, but only a couple. I'm not like that.

The vast majority of the trans men I've been around IRL have worshipped women, and most of the guys came out of lesbian communities or were heavily involved in women's groups. So it's apparently borderline heresy for me to say that I still have strong reservations and emotional reactions to women, and can we discuss trans male attitudes toward women? I did this a few times--in different groups--and somebody would pounce on me immediately. I was told that I was "inappropriate" or "sexist" or that I "shouldn't say such things." Um, what, I shouldn't be honest and say that, as a gay trans man, I am uncomfortable around women and would like some help and insight from guys who DON'T feel that way?

One guy even smacked me when I didn't shut up immediately. I was so stunned that I didn't react, except to start shutting down emotionally. And he was the one running that group.

This is one reason I am currently uninvolved in my local community. Because of my girl issues, I'm still not comfortable around trans women IRL, so I avoid the mixed groups. And I avoid the guy groups because the local trans guys don't even want to acknowledge, let alone talk about, the possibility that a fellow trans man might have unwanted misogyny that he can't fully discuss in cis circles without outing himself.

Well arch i see you being very open and caring towards women. Most guys don't want to talk about it because they can't face it. You face it well. I think you have it backwards. Your the one who can talk about it. thanks for being so open here. 

Wow.. Arch.. it really sounds like they have no idea how to be men either.  They are still more feminist then men from what you are saying here and that is sad.  There is a clear line between respecting women while being polite and going to far almost to still almost be one.

I'm sorry but had I been there?  I would have slap clawed -him- as he'd have deserved it for slapping you.

Quote from: Amazon D on September 09, 2011, 04:32:26 PM
Well arch i see you being very open and caring towards women. Most guys don't want to talk about it because they can't face it. You face it well. I think you have it backwards. Your the one who can talk about it. thanks for being so open here. 

I just didn't know how to respond to this. Thank you for being so kind. On the one hand, I do care about people, not just men. And I am still working hard on being open and talking about things instead of burying them.

On the other hand, I still get these stupid kneejerk reactions to women in social settings. Like when the lesbian discussion group is milling around in the lobby of the LGBT center, making me feel trapped.

One nice thing about Susan's Place is that I get to know women on their own terms, but virtually. It has helped enormously.

P.S. Korlee, I don't think he meant to smack me so hard. Maybe I should have taken you with me to that meeting because I was so shocked that I retreated into myself and sat there mutely for an hour. Back to my old habit of shutting down. I never went back to one of those meetings again, and the group dismantled several months later.

I can see why that group fell apart.  That group really sounds like it was more about what I noted in my last post acting as rather then learning to be men and sharing with each other to grow toward that goal.  You can't just slap on some jeans, a t-shirt, grab a girl to worship and call it a day.  That is just not being a man... there is so much more to it.  It just saddens me to hear that is the route they are taking because they will never grow that way and remain poor examples of your side of the community.

Ya, I knock it right and left but then I hated the whole man bit.  So I am biased on that front really...  However now as a women... it is my right to poke the other gender. ;p

I still have very mixed feelings about Jack Radish's blog entry. I mean, he says he could join some of these cliquish trans man groups and pretend to be one of them...but he couldn't stand the deception. What about joining such a group and trying to effect change from the inside? Instead, he writes a blog that merely preaches to the choir, although it might have the possibility to enlighten a few open-minded individuals who hadn't thought much about the issue at hand.

The other thing is the bathroom situation. It's pretty clear that trans women face a higher level of violence, both in and out of public bathrooms. But if you're a trans man and you're out, or if you're visibly trans and someone clocks you, you can be in big trouble if you're in the "wrong" bathroom. It happened to a close friend of mine a couple of years ago. Three guys realized that he was trans, and they jumped him and beat the crap out of him. He is six feet tall and big, so he had a size advantage over most trans men. Also, he's very tough and physical. What would have happened to my other friend in such a situation? He is five feet tall and femme and cerebral.

It does sound to me as if the Aydyn crew in this little story are full of themselves and practicing trans-exclusivity. Perhaps it's a trend on college campuses these days; I don't know. And the guys were hyperbolizing their own bravery and the dangers that they face. But let's not forget that there IS a danger, even for trans men, and it is very real.