I get the idea I'm not really being understood here, highly possible because I'm not likely expressing what I really mean in this, if nothing else, I'm wary and uncertain of it myself and not really knowing how to put the depth of what it all means to me into words that have any kind of finality and conviction to them.
Valerie, you ask about trust and it's meaning to me. I think I summed that up to you before which may have gotten lost in those books we occassionally write back and forth.
It is as I said. If you never share or allow yourself to be vulnerable to another, then no trust is actually given. With what one has that can be used against you, thier trust is proven by the way they show it, not how they express it. Up until more recent times, this woman has never crossed these lines and if she recently has, then she has returned what she has taken, I am not harmed other then in my dissapointment in her for even giving a temporary thought to what would hurt me most, I can cast no stones in this because of the boulders in my own eye. Trust between us is still intact, though it has been deeply tested, I can only hold to the believe that she really is willing to make a final attempt in good faith and with a commitment to do what is best for me, even if she doesn't see that "best" as being entirely within her own interest.
I realize that after all the water under the bridge that at best it could not be a perfect re-union. There will at lest for some time be some give or take on the gender issue. I can deal with that.
And leather? Not really, not in my case. I have never been a part of leather, rather something on the surface very simular by much more primitive and less totally inclusive of two people involved with each other, the relationships and meanings and what is gained from them are somewhat different though indeed simular.
Kimberly, I like your viewpoint, at least explore such a situation, I do not have to stick around for anything I can't live with, but I'll never know what could have been if I don't make the effort to try, and a few months to see if there is reason to reconsider is little enough to pay for the possibility of something I would want to have and will not slow me down by any undue amount of time while testing the waters. It is just that I turn my back completely this time, there will be no turning around, it would be a finality and I no longer believe in finalities unless certain I can go no further with it and must face what I would rather not except for survival.
Shelley, What my heart tells me is that I had commitments and promises to this woman long before she was aware of what the future held in store, I do care for her and would not see any harm come to her though actions of my own which she has so say or discussion in. If in the end I must hurt her or we must hurt each other, then it will be, but for my part, I must be there for her unless she herself makes it impossible to extend anymore for her. I once depended on this woman and she depended on myself. There was never any question or doubt between us in past years and it is that I would wish to regain. That doesn't mean it is regainable. It is in me to turn over all the stones before being convinced I have found nothing. After all these years, surely I can overturn one more stone before sealing up my heart?
Leigh
QuoteIs it control for the sake of control on her part or are you willing to submit against your inner will? Giving up what you have strived to attain.
Don't analyse me like that Leigh, One thing I am still sure of, and that is I will never give up control over or submit to anything which will cost me my own will. I am very flexible in any negotiation, and there are things I will do to make a partner more comfortable, but depending on what that partner gives me in return I will either return it in spades or flatly refuse, but such things are open and disgussable in the beginning. I will give all of myself that is not reseerved from the beginning and nothing at all to any who would attempt to take it.
That said, yes, a lot of it is simple control on her part, it is a part of her personality and one of the things that drew me to her in the beginning, though at the start, she bended all solely to my wishes and it took time for her to come into her own in these matters.
You mention about her terms is all you see in this leigh, I simply considered the terms themselves. She askes that I have surgery in the U.S. so that she can be with me, as she never has frown well under any circumstances, is afraid of my being in a strange county halfway around the world and agrees to help pay for the extra expense if I do so. Her other condition is I put no others before her and share nothing with other women of any kind of personal nature other then with her direct knowledge of what has transpired. I don't consider those conditions to be all that far out there, she is saying in a way she does not trust me in relations with other women, but I've earned that one it would seem and she means for me to spend my time with her, not someone else. I understand these terms and to not to agree to the exclusive lock on each other would imply wanting to hide something. realistically, I don't see a problem in her wanting that, can you? As for my own conditions, simple enough, love me and make me feel secure in that love, I ask nothing more and nothing less. Give me love, I have need of little more in life other then the basic necessities of life.
There would be no giving up of what I wish to obtain, she seems to have made that connection and to realize it is either help me or let me go and for now, she seems sincere that her choice is to help me, and I am of a mind to test that for a couple of months to determine if she is genuine or giving me lip service. If by the time of the wedding I am convinced of her sincerity, I will hold for a US surgeon, If not, I can still go out of country and return to wherever I have a mind to go. I can deal with those terms it is simply the finality of it that bothers me, as it is so final.
And Leigh, Please, never shut up when you have something you think I should hear, despite any pre existing relationships, pre transition or not, your advice and councel in this, or anything for that matter, is one of the few I put stock in, especially when things don't work as I would have envisioned, there are few more qualified to have an opinion then yourself and until I am truely ready to run with the big bitches any exchanges with you provide me with much to think and learn and when I eventually take my place in the pack I will hope to have achieved perfect confidence in all others I am what I am and nothing else, no more "who's who" to contend with or take into account
Cassandra, As I have said Leather relationships, as you are attempting to understand are not truely involved here and my knowledge of the realities of that environment are limited, I have not lived from within it..
You must understand the dynamics you speak of are not at play here and i have never given up anything in my life through any kind of force of any kind, The woman wieghed almost a 100lbs pregnant with the one child we had together. I ordinarily have a much tougher mind then she does. Any control I have ceeded to her in the past I did so out of trust and love and in former days, it was reciprocated, no force invoved or considered.
for simplicities sake, lets say I like to be seperated from the little hassles of life and would rather someone else make the household and financial decisions, what major purchases we make and what we eat etc. and leave me to the job of providing security and earnings, and all money I have ever made while with her is either direct deposited into our joint account or the check given to her. I have never cashed a check of my own since we have been married or taken any money out of the bank without her full knowledge and agreement. I make decisions in accordance with what I must do at a given moment in reaction or anticipation of given events, but I leave the matters of daily life to the woman and I do the chores around the house, though unless I am watched or worked with, or simply given specific directions, it is not a good idea to let me do the cooking as my particular taste runs toward what to other people can be overloads of spice or combinations of taste others may not appreciate, but am perfectly capible of normal food preperation when reminded that others besides myself will have to eat what I prepare.
The woman has controlled all money and shopping decisions since shortly after marrage and has branched some from there, things I don't argue about or wish to, when I do disagree with a decision, I say so, though by the time we finish reasoning it out, it's generally myself who is not the winner in the dedision, but again I give her no argument about what she thinks best for us unless I have special insight or knowledge to tell me it is a bad idea I can't go along with.
Our one conflict seems to be the direction of my life. Before moving to california, she was all over me about what I had done to my carreer and would I not do anything to salvage it, which I would not on the terms it would have to be done. She asked me, where could I live in peace, where would I find work, how would I afford it with the cuts in income? So many questions and I simply told her I would find the ways, and with some research and the help of others, I found my present job and as secure in that as one as any reason feel secure in.
Later when being screened for HRT Chronic HEP C was discovered and she felt that was the end of that, and after nearly two years I got the right people together who could see some room to work with me on, so on and so forth, with her almost rejoicing at every negative thing since that she believed would halt the train for me, and when I was doing well, keep up a constant barage of insults and concerns about what I was doing, often screaming to the top of her lungs in an appartment building about "what people will think and do about me"? Yeah, right, cover it up huh? Strange for sure, but she would continually lose it and would never see the point that it would go on to the end regardless. She has always hoped I would give up or the docs would simply shut me down and when that hasn't happened, she has tried guilt, manipulation, threats, ultimatums and things I shouldn't talk about. It has been a test of patience for sure, but it at least appears she now understands the difference between 'try" and "do" and her only choice is to help or get out of the way. I only hope that this time she is sincer and if it is not, and may not be, my options are run out, regardless of how I feel about that, but I would want to have what I once had in her and with her asking, I can't simply disapear while a last shot remains open. This is my own free will, devoid of control doing what I feel I must in order to respect myself and regain and retain something that had been a valued and loved part of me.
She is shopping with me now and not deliberately making sure everyone knows the proper pronounds for me such as HE, HIM, MY HUSBAND etc. etc. regardless of any ititial reactions to me, in fact the best way to start her off on male pronouns for me is to give me any respect or courtesy as female anywhere in her presense or earshot.
She is appearing out and about with me and beginning to act natural about it, incouraging, though I am not sure about her new thing of referring or introducing me to others as her Sister in law, her dead huisbands sister. Not sure how healthy that is, but if it gets her by, I can live with that.
And yes, giving up personal control has always been a part of me. For a long time, I followed orders, to the letter and never worried myself about why they were given. I didn't want to know really. Same in personal life, I simply do best in a disiplined environment with distinct guidelines and controls on what I will do and not do. For some reasons I like knowing what my bounderies are and are not. I'm not going to explain, but I am simply one who takes pleasure and pride in service, but not to just anybody, only the few who have demonstrated a superior mentality to myself. Physical strength means nothing. It is the superior will and strength of carracter which I find appealing, not the blind following of anyone who thinks they know how to give orders. A person of superior will and character can easily stop me in my tracks quicker the hulk hogan. Find your own answer to the whys of that.
Deb, I appreciate the sentiments, and yes, a lot has been said and done between us, but consider she is a woman who has been fighting for what was her life with all the means she has or can understand and that her torment is at least as great as my own in the resolution of the problem which is mine and mine alone and she is forced into without any prior consent or ability have any say in. This would make her somewhat mad at me? You damb right it upsets her, and I'm not going to give her any BS about or expect her to be obligated to support me in something she intrinsically doesn't believe in and further believes has destroyed all her hopes and dreams of the future. She owes me nothing in this unless she loves me enough to make the best of it, otherwise, she is under no obligation to support me or help me in any way.
Quoteor taking a chance on finding what you think could be. That is scary...I KNOW.
I want you to examine those words Deb. Do you realiize what you said there and how I or many other transitional subjects would view it? But then you probably couldn't.
You said those words in relation to taking a chance on a woman which may be for naught. Well, if you think about it, apply those words to everything transition is about and you should be able to see what taking chances really is and really means. Few subjects meaning to actually finish have any idea where they are going to come up with all they have to in order to make it past any particular mile marker, Transition itself pales any chances taken over trying to salvage a person who is important to you, The chance I am feeling I dhould take for a person who was a bonded part of me is laughable alongside the simple act of transition. No Deb, you don't know as you said you did, but I want to think you for taking the time to ofer me help and advice when my world is confused.
Hello Beth. Compromise? no compromise is being discussed other then location, which of course determines price. The whole idea is she is affraid of my going overseas. To tell you the truth, I'm a little chicken myself. I have a small fear of flying as it is, not so much that anyone would have a clue about it, but when it comes to flying over large bodies of water, it is an absolute phobia, believe it or not, It gives me anxiety attacks. I make such a flight for only one reason, necessity. That comes down to time already spent in waiting and a growing inability to wait much longer, otherwise I would prefer surgery in the US, even at twice the cost.
If she makes good on going back to work and is willing to slide me a K every month the delay would only amount to a year or so. Not really acceptable, but watching money pile up has a way of conviencing one that steady progress is being made. If by December she has not made the steps to go back to work or in some otherway, then overseas it is, no real significant loss and I will do as I must and if that affects any other promises, then it's time to admit it not my turn to win one again.
Would a delay be an incentive to her. That is a distinct possibility. Odds are good something may give out by the end of another year, there is a liver working at twice normal function and a brain with what they call an evolving hemmorage condition. A year ago next month, they told me a new head full of blood was statistically in my cards within the next few years and next time it would likely finish the job. I am on a clock here and realistically my plans for the future don't really go much past being complete and when I am, I'll go in peace whenever I am taken. I just want to not go in vain, I won't kick about it as long as I hold out till then, after that, it's borrowed time, nothing more and i'm greatful for what is available to repair what I can of what I have done to achieve it. So yes, if she could slow me down, there is the possibility of something that will change things in her view, but I would hope she carried no such deliberate ideas.
The incentive of myself or the kids or both is a valid enough question, The kids are all comfortable enough with me as I'm going, but that doesn't mean they would wish it were so, but over some more recent attempts at sabotage toward me, the kids have been feeling she went entirely to far in her resentment of me and have each and everone declared thier displeasure at her, forcing her to put some things back as they were and beginning the process of making up with me. I really don't know, it's just one of those things that will sort itself out in time. I just have to keep in mind that while I would want to go through with this, it might be handy to have the parachute packed and be ready to jump when instincts tell me things I don't want to hear.
Anyway friends, it's all not the big worry or concern it seems to have been taken as. It is more prone to failure then sucess, but is a shot I feel I should take. Consider to, I will never have another bonded partner, and this is the last one I shall ever have a shot at, and so yes, there is a lot of selfish motivation her to take whatever risk it is. My eyes are open and I am aware that the land of happily ever after is likely going to stay in the story books, but I would hope with all my being this is salvagable as it is as I said, the last chance I have in life, for all I know, of love I can truely recognize and be secure in. Without Love, you ain't got nothing.
Terri
