K guys as the topic says - What method do you think is the most effective and why? I'd like to hear peoples responses cuz there is alot of debate on what method is best for maximum feminization. 


      My opinion is that injectable estrogen is the way to go. Injectables bypass the liver thus giving you the most EV2 out of your dosage, also using this method gives you a nice steady estrogen lvl & has less harmful side affects that orals are known for. I've also heard that using injectables gives you better results faster then orals and from my own experience i can vouch for that claim. When i first started hrt at 19 my endo at the time had me on orals (premarin) and althou i did see great results from it i experienced terrible side affects from it as well. I should add that even thou i saw great results from orals it DID take alot longer for me to notice them. Now at 25 i've been using injectables for 8 months and i'm seeing way better results then i ever did using orals and i was alot younger then too! 

   
     Only bad thing about using injectables is getting over the fear of needles but once you do it's like nothing.    Oh and transdermals would be my second choice cuz of the bypassing liver deal but from what i hear they come off easy and can irritate your skin.   

If you can check out injectibles, do it. I do sublingual estradiol myself, no muss, no fuss, and I'm post op anyway.

I think injectables are great for all the reasons you listed. My doctor feels the same way, too. And using a needle does kind of suck, but it's only once a week and it really isn't the worst thing in the world.

Quote from: NikkiJ on September 12, 2011, 09:31:16 PM
If you can check out injectibles, do it. I do sublingual estradiol myself, no muss, no fuss, and I'm post op anyway.

  Yeah alot of people do that with orals but i just didn't like putting a pill under my tongue every day...it tastes nasty!

Quote from: Sunnynight on September 12, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
And using a needle does kind of suck, but it's only once a week and it really isn't the worst thing in the world.

   Yeah 4realz, my injections are once every two weeks so twice a month is better then having to remember to take a pill every single day. Just my opinion lol. 

I do oral/sublingual. No worries with needles, and no spikes/drops in E2 levels like with injectables. You get the most constant E2 level on a daily basis. Oral/sublingual also will make getting you on the proper dosage easier because your doc will be able to get the most accurate E2 blood serum levels this way due to the constant and level daily administration.

Needles suck, plus I'd probably forget the schedule. >.< I guess I have to get over it. :3

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 12, 2011, 09:41:02 PM
Are injectables more effective? Needles suck, plus I'd probably forget the schedule. >.<

  From my own exp....yes, but that is my opinion & there has been no study done to prove this.

Quote from: Sunnynight on September 12, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
I think injectables are great for all the reasons you listed. My doctor feels the same way, too.

Wish my doc felt that way... she won't prescribe anything but pills.

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 12, 2011, 09:50:31 PM
Wish my doc felt that way... she won't prescribe anything but pills.

What's sad is that estrogen is such a non-dangerous drug. It's not rocket science to prescribe it and keep someone's levels in check, regardless of the route of administration.

Quote from: Laura91 on September 12, 2011, 10:04:06 PM
It's not that bad. Try chomping on a finasteride or spiro pill because you can not swallow pills. Those pills taste truly awful.

Yuck... I don't even like the aftertaste from Spiro when I swallow it. Nasty, chalky mint flavor. Nasty. 

Using theory only...

Intramuscular:

Effectiveness:
-Slightly faster effects
-Hormones only go through the liver once
-Makes your hormone levels spike up and down a lot, possibly resulting in non-maximum results.

Practical side:
-Moderate price
-A huge hassle to take
-Hurts
-The easiest to forget

Oral:

Effectiveness:
-Hormone levels do not fluctuate as much
-Hormones go through the liver twice and put a lot of pressure on it, resulting in higher risks

Practical side:
-The cheapest
-The simplest to take

Transdermal:

Effectiveness:
-Hormones only go through the liver once
-Hormone level are very stable, possibly resulting in maximum results

Practical side:
-Irritates skin depending on the individual
-Can come off
-The most expensive

In my opinion, transdermal is by far the best, since it's very gradual and slow. But it is yet unknown whether the big fluctuations in levels with injectable hormones affect the overall results all that much. Some claim that whilst injections give faster results, it may also be the smallest overall effects. It's controversal.

If it's true, then transdermals really are better. If not, both are equivalent in terms of effectiveness, but injectable wins because it's cheaper.

I started out doing oral and sublingual.  And have continued for the last 3 years.  When you place the pills sublingual, you by-pass the first pass through the liver, thus reducing risk.

I have thought about going to injectables, but I am so use to take pills.  I think I will just continue taking them.

Quote from: Forever21Chic on September 12, 2011, 09:28:37 PM

    K guys as the topic says - What method do you think is the most effective and why? I'd like to hear peoples responses cuz there is alot of debate on what method is best for maximum feminization. 


      My opinion is that injectable estrogen is the way to go. Injectables bypass the liver thus giving you the most EV2 out of your dosage, also using this method gives you a nice steady estrogen lvl & has less harmful side affects that orals are known for. I've also heard that using injectables gives you better results faster then orals and from my own experience i can vouch for that claim. When i first started hrt at 19 my endo at the time had me on orals (premarin) and althou i did see great results from it i experienced terrible side affects from it as well. I should add that even thou i saw great results from orals it DID take alot longer for me to notice them. Now at 25 i've been using injectables for 8 months and i'm seeing way better results then i ever did using orals and i was alot younger then too! 

   
     Only bad thing about using injectables is getting over the fear of needles but once you do it's like nothing.    Oh and transdermals would be my second choice cuz of the bypassing liver deal but from what i hear they come off easy and can irritate your skin. 

I get so angry sometimes as I've fought with the U.K authorities for years trying to prove injectables are better than Pills and Patches. But the U.K still won't license injectables and they are not legally available or licensed in the U.K. So after over a decade on HRT I am still not able to get injections here in the U.K. Unfortunitely over here there is no freedom of choice with the 'out of touch' NHS and I have never had the opportunity to try injectables.

You don't know how lucky you are in America where medications are readily available over there and you don't have all the red tape we have over here to  try and get medications of treatment for gender dysphoria.

If anyone on this forum is also from the U.K and knows how to get injectables legally in the U.K please let me know?

Quote from: Laura91 on September 12, 2011, 10:04:06 PM
It's not that bad. Try chomping on a finasteride or spiro pill because you can not swallow pills. Those pills taste truly awful.

Yea. tried keeping one of those under my tongue today.... I ended up swallowing it after 5 minutes and had the nastiest taste in my mouth for an hour after. Estradiol doesn't bother me. its small and dissolves pretty fast under the tongue. its nasty, but not as bad as Spiro.

Quote from: A on September 13, 2011, 09:12:02 PM
Using theory only...

Intramuscular:

Effectiveness:
-Slightly faster effects
-Hormones only go through the liver once
-Makes your hormone levels spike up and down a lot, possibly resulting in non-maximum results.

Practical side:
-Moderate price
-A huge hassle to take
-Hurts
-The easiest to forget

Oral:

Effectiveness:
-Hormone levels do not fluctuate as much
-Hormones go through the liver twice and put a lot of pressure on it, resulting in higher risks

Practical side:
-The cheapest
-The simplest to take

Transdermal:

Effectiveness:
-Hormones only go through the liver once
-Hormone level are very stable, possibly resulting in maximum results

Practical side:
-Irritates skin depending on the individual
-Can come off
-The most expensive

In my opinion, transdermal is by far the best, since it's very gradual and slow. But it is yet unknown whether the big fluctuations in levels with injectable hormones affect the overall results all that much. Some claim that whilst injections give faster results, it may also be the smallest overall effects. It's controversal.

If it's true, then transdermals really are better. If not, both are equivalent in terms of effectiveness, but injectable wins because it's cheaper.

I am on patches and I find them super easy to use. The Vivelle-dot patch it is great.  It does not ever accidentally come off and luckily it doesn't irritate my skin and it's easy to apply.  Luckily I am responding very well to the dosage too which at first I worried would be too low. Only downside is the cost.

Spiro SUBLINGUAL.... you gotta be joking!!!

Never tried Fin though. EstroPause and EstroFem are OK.

But Spiro is the most bitter taste I EVER recall I had in my mouth EVER. Eh!

Best delivery method? Ovaries I would say, yeah --- call me stupid :-)

As far as patches go they WAY expensive for pre- and non-op E loads.
Post-op --- worth a try for sure.

Axelle

I use transdermals, patches if I'm with a partner and gel if I'm not. Gel can cause problems to the other person.

Started on pills but got stomach problems, tried needles but they freak me out and then went back to pills but got the usual problem and so ended up on transdermals.

Anti androgens don't come in transdermal form as far as I know so we're stuck with the ultra foul tasting Spiro. What it costs them to sort Spiro out with some coating is beyond me, surely that would be very easy?

the needle would be better for the liver for sure, but you got to work with what you got.

I think I would prefer injections but my doctor is about 1 1/2 hours away from where I live. So, I'll stick with my pills. Besides, they've been working well.

the best information on hormone delivery is best given by your DR.