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Started by BeverlyAnn, March 01, 2007, 12:57:05 AM

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Shana A

QuoteThe fact that we change over time shows that there is more to each individual than the label attached to them. The way to find out about someone is to get to know them as people.

Absolutely true! Regardless of the label, TG, republican, vegetarian, whatever, to reduce someone to what we think the label means is shallow. The human behind the label is much deeper and complex.

zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Brianna

I love precise words. I also like labeling when it's accurate and not pejorative.

The truth is, I want no association by society with crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s. It's not accurate, and the lack of information by the mass public leads to confusion. This is why I despise the term Transgendered. It's not in the dictionary, it's not scientific and it's just too hippie dippy for me.

I have come to like the term transsexed. It accurately describes what we have as a transitive birth defect that is cured. I also like Androphillic and gynophillic to describe our sexuality pre-transition to clarify from common confusion with being gay.

I've said it before but crossdresser is another term I refuse to use. It has no meaning. I don't find the term ->-bleeped-<- pejorative - but when someone asks to be called something else, I of course agree. This is being polite.
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cindianna_jones

One label I truly like, especially when applied to me, is:  woman.

I have a new one for Bri:  bald

Chin up!

Cindi
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Brianna

Britney likes the label "anti-Christ" along with baldie, Cindy. (See my tagline) I am inclided to agree.
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cindianna_jones

Bri, that woman has some real problems. It's so hard for me to remember that full sized poster of her in the local 7-11 a few years ago and reconcile that image with the one she now presents. Fame and fortune do not insulate us from life.

Cindi
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Brianna

Anti-Christ britney will crush you for your arrogance, Cindy. You will pay the price for daring to daring to challenge the Slave4you of Satan.

Bri

Ps - @ your hubris? A tear. ;)
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BeverlyAnn

Quote from: Brianna on March 05, 2007, 01:52:28 PM
The truth is, I want no association by society with crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s. It's not accurate, and the lack of information by the mass public leads to confusion. This is why I despise the term Transgendered. It's not in the dictionary, it's not scientific and it's just too hippie dippy for me.

Brianna, I'll basically repeat what I posted elsewhere.  So you would rather I not have sent an e-mail to the Largo City Commission in support of Susan Stanton, not support groups like National Center for Transgender Equality with donations because the work they do is primarily for TS?  Maybe I shouldn't participate in the Transgender Day of Remembrance either because society might link us by association? 

Hmmm, maybe Susan can split the board and have one just for the elite and one for the rest of us run of the mill peons.

Bev
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Brianna

It's a TOTAL false choice to say if I don't identify with a group concordantly I don't support them. I am not gay, but I couldn't be more enthusiastic about their rights. The same logic applies to ->-bleeped-<-s.

Bri
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Reana

I've never been concerned with labels.  The same term from two different persons can have totally different implications depending on the attitude and intent of the person using the term.  I tend to relate to any labels/terms based on the person delivering them and the circumstances under which they come out in the conversation. 
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katia

Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 10:02:52 AM
I've never been concerned with labels.  The same term from two different persons can have totally different implications depending on the attitude and intent of the person using the term.  I tend to relate to any labels/terms based on the person delivering them and the circumstances under which they come out in the conversation. 

that's cute, but let me remind you that some hateful terms are offensive regardless of who says them.  ex: the Q word, the C word,  the F word [for a gay man] and many others.
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Reana

Quote from: Katia on March 16, 2007, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 10:02:52 AM
I've never been concerned with labels.  The same term from two different persons can have totally different implications depending on the attitude and intent of the person using the term.  I tend to relate to any labels/terms based on the person delivering them and the circumstances under which they come out in the conversation. 

that's cute, but let me remind you that some hateful terms are offensive regardless of who says them.  ex: the Q word, the C word,  the F word [for a gay man] and many others.

It's hard to make a strong argument against your examples above but I will make a "weak" one.  I have a particularly negative thought regarding that "F" word, not sure what "C" word you are referring to, and don't have any use for the "Q" word.  This being said, I remain more interested in the attitude and intent of the person making any comment or attaching any label to me or another person.  Sometimes comments or labels are used more in ignorance or with lack of deep thought rather than with malicious intent.     
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Melissa

Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 03:56:23 PM
not sure what "C" word you are referring to    
It rhymes with runt.

Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 03:56:23 PM
and don't have any use for the "Q" word.    
I know locally, some people use it to describe themselves when they are not quite sure where they fall with their sexual orientation, but they know they aren't straight.

Melissa
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Reana

#32
Quote from: Melissa on March 16, 2007, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 03:56:23 PM
not sure what "C" word you are referring to    
It rhymes with runt.
   That would have been my first guess.



Quote from: Melissa on March 16, 2007, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Reana on March 16, 2007, 03:56:23 PM
and don't have any use for the "Q" word.    
I know locally, some people use it to describe themselves when they are not quite sure where they fall with their sexual orientation, but they know they aren't straight.

Melissa

   I'm aware that some persons that might "qualify" for these terms use them to describe each other.  While this is surely acceptable between the two of them, I would still find the words distasteful.

Edit: Fixed quotes - Melissa
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Thundra

:: sigh ::  Again with the labels.  :: whew ::
I am at my wits end with this subject here on Susan's.
There seems to be some misunderstandings involving some terms, because the person using, or disliking the term is not versed in the culture that spawned it, uses it, or adapted it to their own needs. For example:

QuoteI know locally, some people use it to describe themselves when they are not quite sure where they fall with their sexual orientation, but they know they aren't straight.

Not to pick on the divine Missy M., but Queer is much more than that. It is yet another word, that the GLBT community has begun to adapt to it's own use. Yes. In the past it was an epitaph meant to inflict harm, much like ->-bleeped-<-. (We'll get to that one later)  But, when a minority community usurps a word like queer, and embraces that word as an identity, it becomes their own, and they use it with pride.

Locally in Portland, we have a GLBT centered center. What is it called? The "Q" Center.
"Q" does not stand for questioning -- "Q" stands for queer. Queer is becoming the word of choice to describe the blanket community, ala GLBT. Gay does not work properly, because homosexual men are gay. Lesbian describes homosexual women, and BI-sexual describes people that identify as either homosexual and heterosexual, or as neither homo/heterosexual. Just as "T" has come to stand for the umbrella term of all people questioning gender roles, "Q" is becoming the word to describe all people that are not heterosexual-identified-- outside the mainstream.

This creates an obvious problem for many people under the "T" category, because they do not identify with anything GL or B. In actuallity, many people that have fallen under the "T" identified category, or have moved thru and beyond those borders are very vested in retaining the current heterosexual paradigm. They do not want to dismantle it, they want to adapt it so that they are accepted under those rules -- in essence changing how the rules are interpreted.

Now we come to ->-bleeped-<-. It is a book by a local author, one of my favorites, actually.
You can order it from In Other Words Bookstore. These women are presenting ideas that rail against traditional values of male and female to the point, where they do not want to modify the heterosexual paradigm, they want to eliminate it and start from scratch. Of course, not all women agree with them either, so the battle rages on.

Main point being, that people from the "T" category want to be accepted by heterosexual people under the current paradigm, whereas many GLB people are trying to escape it, or dismantle it. We are at odds.

On the one hand, People from the "T" background want the protections afforded them from the GLB community, but they do not want to carry the banner of queer, or being different. Being different gets you noticed, and that goes against the motivations of people trying to blend in. How can this work?  I've no idear?

But, we do need to stop criticizing each other on the use of terms we might or might not agree with. Personally, I find the term trans offensive. There is a local group advertising themselves as women and trans. I am like, what? If I were one of those people, I sure wouldn't want to be involved with the group. The groups name is already exclusive.

On specific terms. I have every right to label myself ->-bleeped-<-. Damn skippy!  I find the term ->-bleeped-<- offensive, and the terms trans and "T" anything divisive. But if someone else wants to use that term to identify with, that is their personal business.

Queer is a more difficult example, because it is the term of choice to describe the GLBT community, and all the other labels that don't fall into GLB or T. So, whereas many people support the term "T", because it puts them in allignment with some GLBT causes, they do not identify as queer, or out of the heterosexual mainstream. Those of us that are queer, support those people, because we are alligned with their fight for expanded rights for all minorities -- but......we have to realize that they are not one of us.

I hope that I have not offended anyone in my broad expressions using the "T" terms?
I know that many people on this board do not identify with anything "T" or radical, and yet they are my allies in some fashion.

I would advance that we allow each other to use whatever term to describe themselves as they see fit. But, to be very careful that we do not apply a label to someone else that they are uncomfortable with.

Thundra: butch, radical, feminist, queer womyn. Not a butch, nor a radical, nor a feminist, nor a queer, but a womyn. Descriptors, not definers.
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tinkerbell

Quote from: Thundra on March 16, 2007, 10:08:11 PM
I am at my wits end with this subject here on Susan's.

LOL :D...hey, I'm getting there fast! ;)

tink :icon_chick:
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Shana A

QuoteThis creates an obvious problem for many people under the "T" category, because they do not identify with anything GL or B. In actuallity, many people that have fallen under the "T" identified category, or have moved thru and beyond those borders are very vested in retaining the current heterosexual paradigm. They do not want to dismantle it, they want to adapt it so that they are accepted under those rules -- in essence changing how the rules are interpreted.

Thanks for posting Tundra. I've also noticed this, and found it difficult. I was already involved with the GLBTIQ community for many years before I identified as "T" or simply other, and still have close ties with the community. While I support anyone's choice to blend in as their desired gender, I want a world in which anyone can express gender safely, and for the possibility of that expression to be outside current socially accepted borders. I continue to work towards achieving these goals.

zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Thundra

Quote
QuoteI am at my wits end with this subject here on Susan's.

LOL ...hey, I'm getting there fast!

tink

I had to go back and make sure it wasn't you, casting a spell again.

I feel like I'm drowning...no, melting, I'm melting, melting, aieeeee!

Yes, I always rooted for the witch. Having an army of flying monkeys at one's disposal would be bitchin' cool.
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Ms Bev

Quote from: Thundra on March 16, 2007, 10:08:11 PM
:: sigh ::  Again with the labels.  :: whew ::
I am at my wits end with this subject here on Susan's.

Would like to mention one thing:  many of us are "T", and L,G, or B

.....What ever.  But could we   Puh-Leeze  put this topic to bed?  Susan?  Someone...???

Bev
1.) If you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance. 
Bev
2.) The more I talk to my married friends, the more I
     appreciate  having a wife.
Marcy
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Laurry

Quote from: Bev on March 17, 2007, 10:33:26 PM
But could we   Puh-Leeze  put this topic to bed?  Susan?  Someone...???

Bev[/color]

Absolutely, Bev! 

And one more thing...when using labels, don't sew them on, use velcro, as you and they will both change over the years.

........Laurie

Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
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katia

i find it amusing how we can react to some threads here.  as soon as someone disagrees with the majority, the [wisest] solution is deleting the thread or asking the moderators for help. :eusa_wall: [a brick wall iow]  and one of the reasons why im not part of the majority of anything.
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