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Here Comes the FTM Cavalry!!

Started by Princess of Hearts, September 13, 2011, 05:47:07 PM

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Princess of Hearts

                                                     'The majority of women (happily for them) are not very much troubled
                                                      with sexual feeling of any kind.'
                                                      Sir William Acton(1857)

As some of you know I believe that many if not most cisgendered people privately believe transsexualism to be not only a sexual fetish but a fetish peculiar to males only.   When I first told my mother about the existence of FTMs I could tell by the expression on her face and the surprise in her voice that she had never given the existence of FTMs the slightest thought.   My mother was self-aware enough to quickly hide her astonishment of the fact that there are genetic females who consider themselves to be male, because of its obvious implication.   Have another closer read of the above quote by Sir William, what Acton was saying indirectly is this :'men are constantly troubled by sexual thoughts which often torment them as much as they delight them if not more so.'    Although this quote is over 150 years old things haven't changed all that much in the collective psyche of the cisgendered.   It is a widely and sincerely held belief that men are the playthings of sexuality and they very easily fall victim to any and all types of sexual deviancy.    Women on the other hand are still very widely believed to be free of sexual thoughts 95% of the time and when they do experiences a sexual thought it is a bland, vanilla bubble that vanishes as quickly as it came, and it is rarely acted upon.    According to deeply held and deeply cherished societal beliefs and expectations men are sexual delinquents hopelessly enslaved to near constant lurid sexual fantasies which they often seek to act out.  While women are fragrant, quasi-angelic beings who almost never succumb to a sexual fantasy and when they do they dream of having a manly husband who will look after them, a nice home and 2.4 intelligent and photogenic children.   The the thinking behind this idea about  women is that women are never never never never in the slightest prone to sexual deviancy!

This next statement will get my FTM brothers' tails swishing but huge vast swathes of humanity are completely and utterly unaware of your existence.  My mother has been aware of my ->-bleeped-<- for several years and I know that she has thought and read a lot about it but it plainly had never occurred to her that transsexuality/->-bleeped-<- was anything other than a 'male' affliction. 
   This terrible ignorance may well be one of the reasons society has such problems with us.  To their way of thinking mtf transsexuality is all there is to the subject and condition, even those who do know of the existence of FTMs clearly consider them as an extremely rare phenomenon in a sort of 1 :500,000,000+ ratio.  These two attitudes clearly hint that society views we mtfs as men suffering from a severe and persistent form of public and semi-public sexual deviancy.  The mtf is a sexual deviant who wants decent, respectable, hard-working people to take 'her' seriously and indulge her in her fetish at all times.   I do appreciate that I have used some strong words and I haven't pulled any punches or spared your feelings, but I felt this tough talk was necessary for you to see things as they are. 
Now of course as we are on the surface at least a polite society, few people will tell you this to your face but they do think it.    I have come to this conclusion from my reading analysis and personal experience.   I have felt the sheer rage and bitter biting words from people online.   I have been called every name you can think of and treated as almost a non-human to which anything can be said to.  I have been verbally abused at a womens' website not once but on several occasions and not one person came to my help.   Online people can let slip the public everyday mask and let their prejudices and irrational hatreds be seen.     Are you perhaps beginning to see that one of the major reasons our mere presence can evoke such reactions is that people despite everything they say essentially view us as being in their words 'perverts' and what is almost intolerable 'public-perverts'.   
Every mtf knows that she will almost certainly be forced out of her current job at worst or marked down as 'never to be promoted' at best.    Who wants a 'pervert' teaching their children?  Who wants a 'pervert' representing their company?   Who wants a 'pervert' serving them in a shop or handing them their food?  Who wants a 'pervert' to be even seen?     The only true explanation is that mtfs are viewed as deviants who no decent person would want to associate with or have come into the slightest contact with their children.

Are you still reading after wading through all that?   Good, because after the terrible dark night comes the first rays of the sun heralding a glorious new sunny day.   The FTMs will be our saviours!   How will they do that?   Well they can raise their profile in the media and in their communities.  They can show that transsexuality 'afflicts' genetic females as well as genetic males and if you remember from above society believes in the trueness the wholesomeness and the incorruptibility of the genetic female psyche as it believes in few other things.   No genetic female could possibly ever be suffering from a sexual perversion.  From this people will start to realise that transsexuality is a condition, an endocrinological condition, and not a depraved in your face perversion. 

So FTM's come out from the shadows, don't let the cisgendered population believe that you don't exist like the unicorn or that you are fabulously rare.
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mimpi

Cara Principessa dei nostri cuori I can see where you're coming from on this but my fear is that the outcome may not be as favourable as you hope.

When it comes down to it FTM's are men, and MTF's are women, sadly gender inequality remains and can we really be so sure that this will not be continued by those who have aligned themselves with their rightful genders?

From the way self defined categories of posters continue to savage each others opinions on here perhaps not. However, I too have great faith in the FTM community that I've encountered here and in real life, and to put it simply the vast majority seem to be part of the 'good guys' of this world and may they ride to our recue any day!

> however they've yet to display sufficient interest in football (soccer) to get my 100% vote of confidence! ;)
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SandraJane

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Fighter

Interesting hypothesis. Let me just see if I get this straight. So society mostly sees transgendered people as male and perverted, correct? The term perversion seems to lean heavily towards males, to the point that some would even believe a woman to be incapable of perversion. So if ->-bleeped-<- is a perversion, then a woman should be incapable of it. That's where the FTMs come in. If a person who is born female is transgendered (i.e. wants to be a man), wouldn't that fly right in the face of those who believe both that ->-bleeped-<- is a perversion and that only males are capable of perversions? So if more FTMs were to throw attention to themselves, it would hurt the notion of ->-bleeped-<- being a male perversion and overall help ->-bleeped-<- as a whole.

If I am correct in my translation, then I see two flaws with your hypothesis.
1) A person who believes ->-bleeped-<- is a perversion, but also believes that females are quite capable of having perversions just as much as men. The idea of a FTM would seem just as perverted as the idea of a MTF to them.
2) A person who does not believe ->-bleeped-<- to be a perversion, but believes that females are indeed incapable of having perversions. This wouldn't be too bad, as they would see both FTMs and MTFs as non-perverted and possibly (hopefully) normal people with a condition, but on the other hand they would still be so closed-minded as to think that women are still incapable of perversion. This doesn't necessarily throw a huge wrench into the hypothesis, but the influx of FTMs opening up would probably seem like nothing to this person.

That's not to say the hypothesis is bad. It would certainly help at least a little, maybe even a lot! I would be quite interested to see how such an event would turn out, and would certainly be supporting and encouraging everyone who participated in it.
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Princess of Hearts

While people that don't think of mtf transsexualism as being a perversion and who also think that women are not exactly free from sexual deviancy etc do exist they are in the minority.

Last year there was shock and horror when a woman at a pre-school nursery was arrested and charged with taking and possessing indecent images of small children.   The media although trying desperately to be objective nevertheless couldn't hide its utter astonishment at this unthinkable revelation.  The fact that a woman was arrested for paedophilic practices was very difficult indeed for people here in GB to understand.   To cut a long story short I think three women were eventually charged and found guilty of possessing pornographic images of children.  However, these women claimed - and they were believed that they were under the terrible Svengali like influence of the ringleader a man.   The public breathed a huge sigh of relief that an almost instinctive belief had not been shattered only bent, namely that these women behaved in such an appalling manner because they were all in love with this man.  He was the monster they were just silly women whose love sickness caused a terrible lack of judgement on their part.  This is the way society likes and seems to desperately need to see men and women.  Any deviancy in women is thought of as being the exception that proves the rule, while it is almost taken for granted that men are bestial sex mad predators or would be if society allowed them.
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Fighter

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 13, 2011, 07:11:16 PM
While people that don't think of mtf transsexualism as being a perversion and who also think that women are not exactly free from sexual deviancy etc do exist they are in the minority.
Hey, I didn't say they were big flaws ;).
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SandraJane

This topic is now unlocked.  You are now free to roam the topic board.

Please post responsibly.

SJ
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mowdan6

to all of this, I want to say.  I am FTM.  I have been an open advocate in my state for many years.  And my girlfriend, of many years, is MTF.  don't be so quick to judge.  From what i know, trans people, both MTF and FTM, once they can live stealth, do so.  And that is a big reason why we have no representation. 
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bojangles

QuoteSo FTM's come out from the shadows, don't let the cisgendered population believe that you don't exist like the unicorn or that you are fabulously rare.

But, my dear, we ARE fabulously rare.  :laugh:

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SandraJane

Quote from: Logan Bann on September 14, 2011, 09:27:53 PM
People are more inclined to believe that men are perverts.  They are also more inclined to believe that women are impressionable and stupid.

And that's aside from being "Hillbillies" Brother! :laugh:
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Taka

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 13, 2011, 07:11:16 PM
However, these women claimed - and they were believed that they were under the terrible Svengali like influence of the ringleader a man.   The public breathed a huge sigh of relief that an almost instinctive belief had not been shattered only bent, namely that these women behaved in such an appalling manner because they were all in love with this man.  He was the monster they were just silly women whose love sickness caused a terrible lack of judgement on their part.

which is the reason why ftms won't be able to save the mtfs. the victorian thought that women are incapable of any perversion usually leads to the conclusion that any woman who suffers from perversion is either possessed by or a worshipper of the devil, because it couldn't have originated from within herself

actually it probably dates as far back as to the age of enlightenment, that's when they started burning those witches who wouldn't conform to their own unenlightened ideas
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spacial

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SandraJane

Quote from: Taka on September 15, 2011, 05:34:15 AM

actually it probably dates as far back as to the age of enlightenment, that's when they started burning those witches who wouldn't conform to their own unenlightened ideas

*In Germany in the 1500's , Midwifes were burned at the stake as witches. Incidentally, they were competing with the Doctors...just buisness :laugh:
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Nero

It's funny how it used to be the other way around. If you go back a ways, women were the ones thought to be slaves to their insatiable lust. Whereas men were the ones who could control themselves.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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blake

Your thoughts are logical to me, Princess of Hearts. Although a more public FTM presence may not be the sole solution, I think it would be a useful factor.

Would be up for it if I could feel confident wherever I did so. I would leave my personal life off-limits, being entirely stealth. Pride rallies would be a great way to publicly align myself with the trans community.

But (probably selfishly), I strongly think I want to pass at work. That would cut off more opportunities to raise tolerance, simply because I want to be treated as a guy, and not as "a woman pretending to be a guy". Don't know if that's a realistic assessment of my future coworkers, since I haven't tried passing in public yet.

Not sure how useful I'd be... but the idea seems sound.
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gail123

This has been one of the most entertaining posts I've see.

In keeping with the spirit of adding fuel to a fire here are my half baked comments.

I think a lot of people when they encounter FTM phenomena don't at first think of it as a perversion in and of itself, rather they think of it, perhaps not in fully conscious way, as a somewhat logical extension of the modern woman's never ending imitation of male behavior. As today's woman moves into every nook & cranny of society, male behavior is the main model for how women act in their new roles.
That some women opt to go whole hog is not particularly surprising.

Before MTF (myself included) swell with silly pride it might be wise to pause and consider whether or or not woman's mass move into the male world may not play a role in the increased numbers of MTF.
It certainly has seemed to influence the Gay world, as sometimes I think  Gays are the main force keeping a knowledge of old style femininity in public life.

I know we're all hard wired, and in reality really women or men as the case may be, but existence and the world are complex, and their mystery seems unending.
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