Hi

I am a slightly confused 25yo having some issues with my family and could really do with some advise.  I was born male and I am pretty sure I still identify as male but I have been on androcur and sandrena since December, have sort of a lil bob and generally dress in an androgynous style (girls jeans, long button up shirts to hide my lil boobies, eye make up etc.) *kinda MtWTF

A few months ago I told my mum I was on female hormones and she seemed fine with it.  She actually seemed a little bit excited that I would share that with her as we are not that close.  I have a younger brother ( 8 ) and a younger sister (13) that live with her and their father.  I called her this week to ask how to spell her middle name (I was shortening my name from Christopher to Kris) and she said that basically I am not to wear make up or anything out of the usual because the kids 'don't need to know', that she was their parent and that she had to protect them.  She is becoming progressively more Agoraphobic and I am unsure of what to do. 

I have spent most of my life in denial and varying degrees of depression, my relationships felt hollow because I felt they were based on a lie and I am finally, at 25 starting to be myself and I really don't want to have to pretend to be someone else for anyone. Obviously I am a toned down version and my younger brother and sister have seen me in eye make up but really that is the tip of the iceberg as I am not going to be able to hide my physical changes for much longer. Am I being unreasonable? What should I say? I feel really alienated by my family and quite down.  My other brother (22) agrees with my Mother and that I should not be myself in front of the kids.  The only part that I agree with is that my brother could be teased if I picked him up from a friends house looking a little eccentric.  I am not stone cold or stupid and I can consider his feelings but apart from this, it seems too much like the 'gay people shouldn't have kids because they will get picked on' argument WHICH IS TOTAL BS and is not the way forward. I think is just an excuse which shows someone is not actually accepting.

Any helpful comments or advice would be really appreciated

Thankyou

Kris

You have two options, respect or disrespect your mother. If you don't live with her and you want a relationship with her then its pretty simple, don't wear makeup when you visit. If you show her a tiny bit of respect in the beginning of your journey you will be surprised how easy it is to get along with people later on.
Thats just my opinion, I'm sure you can find others who will encourage you to fight for your right to wear whatever you want in front of whoever.

Quote from: espo on September 18, 2011, 04:35:23 PM
You have two options, respect or disrespect your mother.

I flat out disagree with this. While the advice to cooperate may be wise, the premise is wrong. It is NOT disrespectful to your mother or anyone else to be yourself. Sometimes you need to go along to get along, sometimes you have to take a stand to be yourself. Whatever choice you make it's not about respecting or disrespecting your mother.

Of course it is.


I should have said 'your mother's wishes'

Your being is in your mind.

It is you.

If you deny yourself you will still be you decades from now.

By yourself and try to love others.

Find some things that everyone can accept and continue doing them.

Maybe that is all you will need or maybe it will be a platform for more.

At end of day suppressing yourself will bring confusion and depression.

Do hormones make you feel better?

If yes then that is way your brain is wired.

Be yourself. Would they all do the same or something like it?

You have to be who your mother wants you to be, ask her if she and anyone else would care to change their looks. too
For the females, no makeup either, males? good luck getting them to wear makeup (or maybe not).

Ativan

I agree, don't suppress yourself
I agree, you have to be you

It appears mom is on board for Kiss taking hormones just not wearing makeup while visiting around the kids. How bloody simple a request that is.

What they said.

Here's another thing you might want to do.

Have you heard, first impressions matter ?
Well, let's make a long-lasting impression!
Get yourself the most flamboyant clothes and outrageous style you could possibly find. Then go visit mom.
Give her a show that she won't forget, and then once you're done freaking everybody out, go back to your place.
Let things settle for one or two days, then go back wearing what you would Really normally wear.

This way, compared to the original shock, your "funny dressing" will be nothing. After all, they would know you can do worse.

How's that for advice, huh ?

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on September 18, 2011, 06:20:38 PM
What they said.

Here's another thing you might want to do.

Have you heard, first impressions matter ?
Well, let's make a long-lasting impression!
Get yourself the most flamboyant clothes and outrageous style you could possibly find. Then go visit mom.
Give her a show that she won't forget, and then once you're done freaking everybody out, go back to your place.
Let things settle for one or two days, then go back wearing what you would Really normally wear.

This way, compared to the original shock, your "funny dressing" will be nothing. After all, they would know you can do worse.

How's that for advice, huh ?

Well there you go Kiss. What's important to you. Family or being a big shot?

Hey Kris,
      I'm gonna give you a slightly different take, just based on how I would look at it if it were me (and of course it's not, so please feel free to disregard...)  So, to me, it sounds like you're considering your Mom's request as a long term thing, when it may actually be more short term.  As you mention, the physical changes are going to be apparent to your younger siblings in the not too distant future.  It doesn't sound like your Mom is against your transitioning or your seeing your siblings, so to me, it sounds like what your Mom may be asking you for is not that you not be yourself, but that you give her a little time. It sounds like your younger siblings are old enough that at some point they are going to ask her about your appearance changing so your Mom is probably going to be having a talk with them and maybe she just needs some time to figure out how she wants to answer, or maybe she just needs a little time to get used to things herself before she can focus on how to answer? (If this sounds like it might be the case, you could just bring it up point blank: "So, Mom, you know I've been respecting your wishes about not wearing make up around the kids, and the I wouldn't want to confuse them, but some of my other changes are becoming more apparent and have you thought about what you might want to tell them/do you want me to be there to answer questions/need me to point you toward resources, etc?") Once your siblings understand what's going on, the make up might not be an issue. Even if you think this is not the case and/or you don't want to talk to you Mom about it, I think I'd still take a wait and see approach, because you can always re-evaluate and go against your Mom's wishes at a later time, but once you decide to disregard her request, that ship has sailed.  Of course, I'm of a very cautious and risk-adverse nature or I wouldn't be the Ghost, and this type of approach may not be right for you, but I thought I'd put it out there just in case. I'm wishing you the best on it. 

Doesn't sound to unreasonable to me, doesn't sound like she's not asking you to be you - it sounds like she's asking you not to turn up dressed like something from Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

Remember, you've had a lot of time, headspace and inclination to think these issues through but your brother and mum have not, so any acceptance at all is a good base to work on slowly and carefully with due respect to the strangeness of the ideas to them.

So, take baby steps when you are around there, wear some female stuff that could be male and/or mix it with male stuff anyway. It might be a nice opportunity to try subtlety. 

Kris I'm dealing with similar issues with family.  I always tone it down a bit around those members of my Family  for a long time I dressed in unisex clothes and no makup and slowly introduced more femme clothes. to keep the peace without loosing my sanity can be a tough line to walk.
I don't know if this helps my my suggestion is to compromise be you just not an extreme you if you do makeup then only do a subtle look

the most important thing is that you are your own personality at all times around your family. if you can also accompany this with comfortable clothes that suit you, they may actually accept that as you, and not the stranger they may think you're about to become. even makeup can be applied in such ways that most people won't notice you're wearing it, why not try with a colorless mascara at first?

my mom seems to be deadly scared that i'll suddenly want to turn into a guy. but even she doesn't notice most times i wear male products, be it scents or clothes, as long as it's something that suits me

Hey guys thanks for the reply

I am not really concerned with the make up I will continue to wear it regardless - I have been toned down for them up until now ( only eyeliner, brown eye shadow, masacara black nail polish ) and my younger siblings have already seen me like that. I also don't really own any guys jeans or stuff like that anymore anyway but I don't wear skirts either?  What worries me is the fact that 'they dont need to know' and apparantly my sister (13) shouldn't see my changes & I have to keep anything hidden, meaning even if she did 'grow up' today I have to look MALE for my younger brother for at least 5 years? That's impossible and BS.  I am wondering what is so wrong about me looking the way I do?  Am I doing an injustice to my younger siblings?  I would make an exception for my brothers friends but apart from that I want to be myself.  I am seeing my psychologist tmrw about this for his opinion.

I do value our relationship (as most ppl value their parents) but at the end of the day if she doesn't want to see me because of the way I dress, that is her loss and closed mindness.  I do however REALLY value my relationship with my younger siblings and I don't want to have to build our relationship on a lie until they are eighteen?  Obviously I don't have to tell my Brother about HRT or anything atm but just that some guys wear make up, most don't but it doesn't really matter, which should be sufficient.  That is merely not conforming to a typical gender role (which is just a social construct anyway.) I mean do I have to ask permission from 'Their' Mother - I'm not feeling the love - to not eat a meat pie and watch the football? On that topic I wasnt allowed to tell my sister details about being vegetarian a few years ago, let alone being vegan.  To me she has the problem.  Raising kids like that breeds police commissioners daughters that are drug dealers.

What have any of you said to your family? especially younger ones?

@Taka - lol my dad thinks I'm going to cut my penis off and "hurt my family." He hadn't noticed that I've been wearing female perfume or clothes etc for years. I wear whatever suits me, even if it is not the opposite of my born gender - I would say I am fairly subtle.....

Thanks again

if you have a good relationship with your younger siblings, and they're able to keep a secret, you could talk to them about your transition. you'll also do your siblings a favor by revealing these kinds of secrets, because it lets them know you're a person who can understand things outside the strict morals of your parents, and by putting your trust in them they might come to trust you enough to ask you for help if it's something your parents can't help them with. i have many secrets with my younger siblings, they understand and accept me much more than my mom ever will, and they also talk to me about things that my parents wouldn't want to hear about

Went to my psychologist apt yesterday and it was great.

I asked my mother to come in with me but she couldn't make it, which is a shame, but she is coming in with me on Friday the 7th.  I called her last night and she dropped a few lil goodies.  One was that I don't love her because I never told her.  One was that she is devestated and that I am being disrespectful in shortening my name from Christopher Michael to Kris, and that I'm saying my identity is mascara. LOL.

Pretty typical but delayed reaction I think

My therapist has been trying to get me to journal for aaages and I am finding that posting on here helps me vent aswell as organise my thoughts.

Ta

Quote from: Kiss on September 22, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
My therapist has been trying to get me to journal for aaages and I am finding that posting on here helps me vent aswell as organise my thoughts.

Writing is therapeutic.

Are you visiting or living in parents house at 25?
..............

My situation is different.  When I told my wife she told me not to tell children.  A year after telling her I told children who knew for one year.

Still have not told rest of world.  Wonder if they know too.  Guess one day they will know.

....................
Actually I think it is good to talk to siblings in an understanding manner.  Maybe doctor can agree with you and share these thoughts with your mom.  Siblings probably know and will keep peace.

Hi

Psychologist appointment didn't go so well.  So badly in fact my doc suggested I think about lowering the expectations I have of my family and try to interact more with those accept me as I am.  Meaning less badness I guess.  Sad.

@ Wendy - Hi, yeah I have been out of home for about ten years - they live half an hour away and I have to sort of been invited.....sucks.  My mum often says that certain times don't suit her etc.  I am also a lil concerned about my safety if I turn up as myself.  I am really really disappointed.  Do you identify as MtF? How did your kids go with it?

Kris

Kids understand and adjust to new ideas best when they're younger. I think you showing up looking girly would bother the mother much more than the children.

I don't desire a relationship with my family, so my experience is not like yours, but I think your psychologist is right to say that you should spend as much time as possible around people who accept you.

 young kids are much better at accepting me then most adults.
Adults often hide there pregidious by saying that kids seeing me is a bad thing.
My style and presentation is out there but around family I have been toning it down for a long time.
I can no longer hide who I am and have recently had a big chat with my parents to try to understand where they are coming from and so they can understand how serious the issues I have to deal with emotionaly are.  I think they are coming around I won't know for sure until next Time I let myself be me totally around them.  It is a scary tightrope to walk - be me or be acceptable answer is somewhere in between