I don't know.

I guess what i'm saying is this thread feels more like an Anarchist Recruiting propaganda thread than a thread of someone who doesn't like a dead President.

I'm assuming by Princess of Hearts' posting in this thread, she is a die hard anarchist.

Am I right?

When it comes to politics, religion, activism, etc, one can become so infatuated by being against fundamentalist ideals that they inevitably create a philosophical circle in which they become fundamentalist themselves.

For example, I seen it in religion where people go so left they go right. Ive seen Pagans (as I am Pagan myself) become to adamantly against, say, Christianity or another religion that they begin to emulate the same hostility towards them that they (Pagans) fought so hard to become independent from.

I seen political left leaders who become so much against the right wing, that in variably begin to share almost the same ideological view points of their "enemies" but in different contexts.

And I seen activists, say transsexual activists for example, where they slip into a form of fundamentalist activism and begin to label or box other trans people into their own spheres and thus doing the same thing those who speak against trans people out in the general public share.

When one person goes so far the other way, they always end up circling on the other side. The terms, ideas, or definitions will be polar attitudes, but the attitudes and ideologies merge into one.

Well Ladies and gentlemen time now for me to step down from my soapbox and put it away for another time.   I hope that you have learned something and that I have made you think.   Regardless of what you make of my writings here I thank you for your patience and indulgence.

I've learned something, all right.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 18, 2011, 08:54:42 PM
So many people seem to want Presidents and Prime Ministers to be their 'daddy' and hold their hand and protect them at all times.   People have short memories, I am sure that in America there are many people saying: 'This recession would never'ah happened on the Gibber's watch, no siree.'   'Yeah big Ron was da' man!'   As my post above shows it was the 'great communicator' who gleefully kicked started all the upheaval we are seeing now.

Ladies and gentlemen if there is ONE think that you understand and take to heart it is this:

You mean nothing to the politicians, no really I am serious.   You are livestock, you are sheep on the government's farm.  You are sheep to be shorn for all you are worth.   You agreed to all this when you accepted your SS/SIN/NINO so don't think the law will protect you.  You and the government entered into legal relations you and Washington are partners in a contract.

Once you understand that the politicians own you everything else falls into place.   You will realise why they promise you the earth before an election and renege on their promises afterwards.  They think that you are stupid, in fact they know that you are stupid, their state schools are set up so that you will become stupid and remain stupid the rest of your life.   The politicians find out what you want, promise to deliver in office then say 'oh sorry times and circumstances have changed we can't now do anything that we said we would do.'   The people fall for this trick election after election after election after election.  The people say ' Oh gee that sucks but I guess we just gotta do what the grown ups say.'  'I guess we gotta tighten our belts cause of this recession.  We just gotta work even harder and even longer for less money and a smaller pension at the end of it.'   

Do you know how the government can get you to pay the bankers' debt and accept severe cuts to public services?   Well again you agreed to all this when you accepted your SS/SIN/NINO.   You agreed to act as Surety on government debt.  What 'Surety' means is that you promise to pay if the borrower(The state and Federal government) can't service its debts.   When this happens the creditors will come looking for you and legally demand that you the Sureties are taxed more and have services cut to pay the bankers their money.  Had you lawfully refused to contract with the government then they could not have demanded money from you, or asked you to serve in the military or send you to jail for anything other than theft from, damage to a living soul and their property.
  If you want to keep someone wholly dependent upon you you never give them what they want although you keep promising to do just that but only if they keep on giving you what you want.   This craven dependence and rank stupidity would be shocking enough but now we get people praising the person who wrecked their and their children's future and who also buried them and their great grandchildren as yet unborn up to the eyeballs in debt.

Mankind lost all their rights when they left the farm and moved to cities. The only way to get as free as possible is to be less dependent on the corporations and their factories and stuff they sell in cities. I bought my 6 acre farm and have basically only bought old used items that can help me survive here. I have my gardens and canned much food and have my root cellar and am trying to show others what we need to do to break away from corporate rule.
Most People in cities all want their luxuries and that will kill them in the end. In the future mass people won't be needed as robots will be doing most of the work for the wealthy. Its already happening with our computer age. I do believe they will leave alone those who are self sufficient and allow them like me and the many amish, mennonites , hutterites, twelve tribes, etc etc to continue surviving off the land. They / we will be seen as a special group worth allowing to live and get their support. Thats a worse case senario. So get back to working in the garden because unless your super rich and powerful to be able to afford robots to do all your work you will have your kind made to feel that life isn't worth living and so you will downsize yourself and your families. Yes this may be the long term ideology to come and it will take time for it to come about but as they say if you can think about it it's bound to happen. I know i have been telling people for 2 decades that america will get poorer as other countries will get richer to come to a balance so that future wars won't be about the haves and have nots of one country to another but will be about just slowly make all poor and middle class families go out of existence.

 I thought Maggie was alright until she went mad.   -Jeremy Clarkson, Top Gear

This is an excellent thread could it pleased be pinned made a sticky?

I do believe they will leave alone those who are self sufficient and allow them like me and the many amish, mennonites , hutterites, twelve tribes, etc etc to continue surviving off the land

If there is industrial collapsible ain't nothing going to save you, because what will come out of the city and invade you, you ain't going to be able to stop.

Roanld Reagan packaged the 1950s mentality into the 1980s format. Translation: those who voted for him wanted the so called 'good old days'. My question: How was life for African-Americans living in the Jim Crow south? How was life for GLBT people? Were women even considered equal with men? Conclusion: same old white patriarchal crap.

In 1981, American was the world's greatest creditor. When Reagan left office in 1989, American was the world's greatest debtors. His administration busted unions, continued shipping jobs overseas, and created Star Wars. Clinto, the Bushes, and Obama have It's continues that happen today.

The best comment I heard about Reagan was when he was elected governor of California. Jerry Brown, the man he defeated was asked what was reagan legacy, he replied "Things didn't get any worse, but they didn't get any better either. Sad thing is since his presidency things HAVE gotten worse, much worse.   

Quote from: Stephe on September 18, 2011, 06:22:33 PM
I'll buy that one, the other two aren't even close to factual.

What happens during any given presidency, good or bad, is bestowed by history in the President. What happend during President Regan's years at the white house is his legacy, the good, the bad, the ugly.

In any case, please do enlight me on my wrong facts?

Jen61

Most of the people I know or hear from who think Reagan was the bomb point out low unemployment and a seemingly great economy while he was in office.  History tells he went to the US checking account and drained it, then took out the credit cards and maxed them all out.  Sure was great living on what our kids will pay for dearly!

Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers union and that led to the decline of labor throughout the country.  Jobs were sent overseas and soon we found ourselves manufacturing a fraction of what we used to.  It's like trying to win a football game with only pass plays.  You have to have a ground game to be a consistent winner.

Reagan also ushered in the "ME, ME, ME" generation which included corporate raiders and the like.  His administration also had its fair share of raiding government funds like Social Security through "borrowing".  Just look at it now.

No, Dutch wasn't such a great president.  But he will forever be famous and will one day be infamous.  Instead of "The Great Communicator" he will one day be known as "The Great Spender" who sold out this country to the rich.  And that set the stage for all future Republicans.  Just look at them now.

Leaving out the fact that he defeated the Soviets, he by design or by serendipity move us from an "Industrial Society" to a "Creative Society."  Like all changes, it has brought pain and missery to some riches to others.

As for the borrowing and the "our children will pay." Sometiimes you have to borrow in order to retool, and the children of any generation  always pay for the sins of their parents.

Jen61

At the time, I thought it couldn't get any worse than how it was during the 8 years of Reagan. Sad to say I was proved wrong when GWB took office, it got much worse during his 8 years. So much of what we're dealing with now, extreme inequity between the very rich and everyone else, etc., was put in motion during Reagan's presidency.

Z

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 17, 2011, 05:22:54 PM
Something that Zoe posted in another thread(see my 'Kennedy Assassination' thread) got me thinking. 

Princess, Princess...

...drove through Dealy Plaza early this week and by the Grassy Knoll (really!)

Ahh the "Gipper", I warned my friends if Ronnie was elected they would resurrect all of his awful movies (except the Knute Rockne Story and The Gipper), and I was right! When I was in the Navy I discovered whenever we meet some of our fellow service members from the UK, that someone would always (a Brit) bring up Ronnie, even the NZ'rs would chime in! They absolutely hated him, all of Europe was afraid that Ronnie would start WWIII (interesting that the height of Cold War Apocalypse fear and fiction reached its apex during his Presidency). So what if Ronnie's administration attempted to ignore the emergence of HIV/AIDS, his only error there was he had a REAL MD as Surgeon General, good ole Dr Koop! Oh well, nobody's perfect.

Even Doonesbury had Ronnie in its sights, and heaven forbid...even Beetle Bailey remarked that after Ronnie was elected Prez, that all of his dreams were like "B" grade movies!

Now Ronnie did exercise some control of the "Nuclear Trigger", and unlike Tricky Dick, did not on a depressive whim (or Alzheimer's bing) change DEFCON conditions almost starting WWIII and scaring Pat Robertson into thinking God had shut him out of the Loop!

Trickle down theory, and you now what else rolls down hill too!

Quote from: Zythyra on September 24, 2011, 03:02:04 PM
At the time, I thought it couldn't get any worse than how it was during the 8 years of Reagan. Sad to say I was proved wrong when GWB took office, it got much worse during his 8 years. So much of what we're dealing with now, extreme inequity between the very rich and everyone else, etc., was put in motion during Reagan's presidency.

Z

Oooooo...I still don't like that guy and the President he served under...Dick Channey!

Quote from: Annah on September 18, 2011, 09:04:18 PM
I don't know.

I guess what i'm saying is this thread feels more like an Anarchist Recruiting propaganda thread than a thread of someone who doesn't like a dead President.

I'm assuming by Princess of Hearts' posting in this thread, she is a die hard anarchist.

Am I right?

Of course you are Annah! That's why I love both of you, and interestingly enough...you're both VIRGO's!

Now about "Dead Presidents"...what "bill" do you think they'll put Ronnie's mug on?

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 24, 2011, 02:45:52 PM
Most of the people I know or hear from who think Reagan was the bomb point out low unemployment and a seemingly great economy while he was in office.  History tells he went to the US checking account and drained it, then took out the credit cards and maxed them all out.  Sure was great living on what our kids will pay for dearly!

Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers union and that led to the decline of labor throughout the country.  Jobs were sent overseas and soon we found ourselves manufacturing a fraction of what we used to.  It's like trying to win a football game with only pass plays.  You have to have a ground game to be a consistent winner.

Reagan also ushered in the "ME, ME, ME" generation which included corporate raiders and the like.  His administration also had its fair share of raiding government funds like Social Security through "borrowing".  Just look at it now.

No, Dutch wasn't such a great president.  But he will forever be famous and will one day be infamous.  Instead of "The Great Communicator" he will one day be known as "The Great Spender" who sold out this country to the rich.  And that set the stage for all future Republicans.  Just look at them now.

I remember when the air traffic controllers union was busted. That was a pretty hot issue.

I can see where people outside of the US see Reagan as somehow 'more than president' but it's not so much that here.  They loved him in DC, no doubt about that, and they named all sorts of stuff after him (what they could, federal buildings and National Airport), but we all HATE DC, and if you get outside of there you don't find a lot of stuff named after him at all.  He kinda gets a pass on some stuff because it's not a huge leap of understanding to think of him as our Queen of England.  A figurehead.  The job of president is that of CEO of the US - the Chief Executive, and he was never that, that was George Bush I. 

Calling poor Princess a 'die hard anarchist' and then someone mentioning that RR 'defeated the Soviets' in one thread, this is the thread that just keeps on giving!

The collapse of the Soviet Union wasn't brought about by US policy but by internal political errors that had initiated more than 50 years earlier.  Instead of holding fast to the ideas of the revolution, Internationalism and true Socialism Stalin mistakenly went down the Socialism in one country road enforcing it with brutality betraying the revolution, and his comrades. We ended up with State Capitalism and the premature deaths of two leaders who would have ensured a very different outcome; Lenin and Trotsky.

Those of us who believed and who still believe have not lost hope however. Marx was correct in his economic analysis and the bubble is bursting, the USSR was not the solution and never could be, the solution was and remains a socialist future on an international scale and it's arrival is as inevitable as tomorrow's sunrise.

Gennee is correct in saying it's the same old white patriarchal crap, your leaders are puppets for cartels that lie beyond politics and whose intentions are most certainly not your welfare. They own, as they always have, the means of production although the naturally down the years the nature of that has changed. No longer old style factories but service industries in many cases. You are the proletariat slaving on their 'machinery' to augment their personal capital while being fed the minimum possible crumbs from the table to prevent you deciding you have nothing more to lose by rising up and telling them where to shove it.

This ring a bell? "Capitalism according to Marxist theory can no longer sustain the living standards of the population due to its need to compensate for falling rates of profit by driving down wages, cutting social benefits and pursuing military aggression." It's happening all around us, denial isn't going to make it go away.

Socialism is of course merely a stepping stone on the way to better things but it's the only one that's available to us right now.

Btw, are ex Communist Party members still banned from entry to the US?

Instead of holding fast to the ideas of the revolution, Internationalism and true Socialism Stalin mistakenly went down the Socialism in one country road enforcing it with brutality betraying the revolution, and his comrades.

That's a good one.  Oh wait, you're serious?  RR gets credit for that whole 'collapse of the USSR' deal, because completely unrelated to the reasons we were doing it, the weapons race heated up so hot that it proved to be the straw that broke the camels back in terms of a system/regime that was never all that good or stong in the first place.  Who knows?  Had WWII not happened in that way it might be different - but there is no way a nation can go through what Russia did, pay that kind of price on it's own soil, and eventually win, and not come out of it fundamentally different.

There would have been no World War 2 if the German Revolution and Spartacist uprising had not been brutally suppressed by the the Weimar Republic using hard line nationalist militias (Freikorps). That would changed world history, saved tens of millions of lives and the Soviet Union would certainly have had a more progressive outcome. Of course the failure also resulted in the assassinations of Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg and the subsequent hatred between the SPD and German Communist Party which enabled Hitler's rise to power. Internationalism never truly recovered imho.

Is that taught in the USA?