Alright well recently I told a close friend that I'm not a guy but a a girl and at first he was just really confused then he starts asking a bunch of questions. The questions were ok until they got up to the point of asking if I'd change hobbies or if I was actually interested in the things we did as friends, like video games and home run derby with a bunch of friends. I told him "I may not be the guy you've seen for the past years but that doesn't mean everything else you've seen was not real", which seemed fine to him  but he kept ranting on about how a lot of girls aren't video game junkies or aren't content to listen to "guy talk".

which all came to the most annoying phrase in my life, "You sure you're not just confused?" He didn't say it out right but hinted at it. If I was confused why would I bother with voice training wearing make up and fighting off the changes my body has forced on me?

All in all I just hate that when I say I'm a girl people expect me to like pink and frilly dresses and dolls(not that I don't to some degree), but it's the idea that as a MtF I should be "feminine" in all regards and overly so, anyone else get tired of this sort of thing? or have had a similar occurrence?

Of course being a woman doesn't mean one has to be "girly" whatever that may be. The whole concept of what is so called girly is in itself open to question as to whether it is a by-product of patriarchal society and gender stereotypes. Always watch football with a female friend who played a very high level a few years ago. Does that make her less of a woman or a less attractive one? Of course not.

Masculine and feminine cover a very wide spectrum and there's no correct way to be either whatever anyone may try and tell you. Same goes for masculinity & femininity, gender, sex, sexual orientation and so on. Be who you are.

I'm a girl... but because I can still field strip an M4 in under 60 seconds with acrylic nails... I'm no less a girl either.

This is why I hate labels. Every person is a unique and special individual. There is no "one size fits-all" in life. 

I'm still very confused about what "being a girl" means...

At what point is someone "really a girl"? What is the checklist to know that you are girl or not?

For me, I have a lot of trouble saying anything about me being "really a girl". I can't say I'm a "girl trapped in a mans body", because, I don't know if that is true.

I don't really have an answer

Is it the desire to want a feminine body? Is simply wanting to start hormones the defining factor? I'm not sure, it doesn't seem enough to dictate "being a girl" or not (my sister tells me all the time that she doesn't like being a girl, but she still is).

Is it how you talk? Or what you like? These are all social things (sure there might be some general things one gender leans to over another, but it is not even close to absolute and it is more about social stereotypes and man-made things like that). I can't say that I am a girl because I liked tea sets when I was 7... it simply doesn't work that way.

So, I don't know I want a feminine body, I like the changes and effects of hormones, I have a lot in common with "girls"... but, I simply can't say that I am "really a girl". I have a lot easier time just saying I am "Trans", whatever that means.

Why should your interested be dictated by your proper sex...

I am a girly girl and love for the feminine stuff and I am really into it... dresses, makeup, nail polish, heels etc... however I hate frilly dresses.

But this fact did not change any of my interests, I still enjoy playing Video games and watching the same sports as when I was a guy.

I think people that are really your friends, will accept you... it may take time.. show that you are the same person still.

I'm inclined to think of it as a sense of identity, not as a set of prescribed behaviours and mannerisms. All kinds of women and men (and folk who identify as either) behave and dress and look all kinds of ways all over the world, so as far as I'm concerned, if someone's not "used to" seeing someone of your apparent gender being a certain way, well they'll just have to get used to it if that's what you do .

I was going through the same crap with family. I did not realy know what I liked because I never let myself explore feminen things. There are a lot of things I like that I did not know I liked. But yes it was throwed in my face that there was nothing female about me. There is now and their mouths are shut. Lol. I not about to give up my tomboyish ways just because it is not seen as female either.

Quote from: JennX on September 19, 2011, 08:56:55 AM
I'm a girl... but because I can still field strip an M4 in under 60 seconds with acrylic nails... I'm no less a girl either.

This is why I hate labels. Every person is a unique and special individual. There is no "one size fits-all" in life. 

may i just say YOU GO GIRL !!!

A yes i do ! i mean my mom and once had a fight i didn't fit a stereotype so yea h8 those things !

The funny thing is that "tomboyish" has been coined specifically to describe a certain kind of behaviour fairly  common in women - so it's womanly to be a tomboy .

Mmmm well, most of the feminine things I truly enjoy have been suppressed for so long that when I tell people they're confused... but some of them have made their way through such as my love for fashion, design, whatever. But, people do question my other interests. I still enjoy playing some videogames (so long as there is character customization, and I can play with friends) and I LOVE the outdoors!!! But, those might just not be to the degree I expressed before.

I see that it's difficult for most who are close to you to be able to distinguish between changing your physical appearance and changing your interests.

It's rather interesting this was brought up. Today I was looking into buying a motorcycle (again) and as I was thinking about it I happened across a motorcycle magazine that had a feature on girl riders. Interesting that it was the highlighted topic because even owning a motorcycle is considered masculine. Why?



Better look out!

As for the original post, be patient with friends. When I came out to my best (guy) friend he asked the same questions. To be blunt, me and him drank and got high together for close to 5 years, went out partying almost every weekend, played football together, video games, poker, other male activities which I won't waste everyone's time on. And I felt a little put off at first too, that he was expecting me to prove my femininity by not doing perceived masculine activities with him, but after thinking it over, I realized he was a bit scared of losing his best friend. So, and I may not know everything, but I think it would be best to be patient with him as I think its the same scenario.

But another conversation I had with a friend. I was playing guitar with a close friend of mine, who happens to be female when she brought up that "its not very feminine to play metal riffs on [black b.c. rich] guitars." My reply was "Too bad, I do." 

Other than that, Mimpi said it best. I think we are socialized to be boys and girls and like boy/girl things (I believe half of gender is social and half is intrinsic which is where we come in). So I still enjoy things like watching fights, football, motorcycles, etc, because I feel I grew up condition/predisposed to enjoying those things.

Quote from: Sam(my)I am on September 19, 2011, 08:02:51 AM
All in all I just hate that when I say I'm a girl people expect me to like pink and frilly dresses and dolls(not that I don't to some degree), but it's the idea that as a MtF I should be "feminine" in all regards and overly so, anyone else get tired of this sort of thing? or have had a similar occurrence?

Reminds me of something my mum said or well implied, was pretty much because I don't act all flamboyant I guess a lot of some transpeople she's met before they transition I can't be a girl and also that because I'm quite shy I can't be a girl because "girls like to talk" (which I do, but I'm just not very good at it face to face). Because of course every girl has the exact same personality and if you're trans you have to be some kind of airhead or you can't be a girl really.

I can totally relate to your dilemma, as most people don't question gender, so most of your questions go unanswered.

To me, I found the journey easy to make if you coin it as - This is how I choose to express yourself. I'm not necessarily girl or boy. Just me. An individual. Just like everybody else!

If you look hard enough you'll always find women that are extremely feminine or masculine, but no one doubts they're women. Problem is that if you spend your life trying to be someone else (I know I have) people pick up on the weakness of your existence and hound you.

Your friend will take you for you you express yourself to be... Don't worry about the questions, be glad that someone is actually interested in your life.

  Hugs
OXOXOXO

Jenny

I never liked doing "male" things, I have always liked dolls and more feminine hobbies

Quote from: MADI! on September 19, 2011, 03:34:52 PM
Mmmm well, most of the feminine things I truly enjoy have been suppressed for so long that when I tell people they're confused... but some of them have made their way through such as my love for fashion, design, whatever. But, people do question my other interests. I still enjoy playing some videogames (so long as there is character customization, and I can play with friends) and I LOVE the outdoors!!! But, those might just not be to the degree I expressed before.

I see that it's difficult for most who are close to you to be able to distinguish between changing your physical appearance and changing your interests.

It's rather interesting this was brought up. Today I was looking into buying a motorcycle (again) and as I was thinking about it I happened across a motorcycle magazine that had a feature on girl riders. Interesting that it was the highlighted topic because even owning a motorcycle is considered masculine. Why?



Better look out!

Very nice motorcycle, and very pretty girl

That whole macho motorcycle business is very much a Northern European/US thing. In East and South East Asia millions of women ride motorcycles (mainly the Honda Innova type), same in Southern Europe although there mainly scooters and 125 automatics. In Italy many girls had 50's at 14 years old as of course did the boys. Nothing quite beats riding two up on an old style Piaggio Ciao, you can't get much closer than that!

Maybe you're a little girly, little boyish, your gender identity and the way you express it doesnt have to be clear cut black and white dear

For example, I like some soccer but I detest anything car/mechanic related, never felt any interest in that

I also love shopping and frolicking around with my hair and clothes while laughing out loud on a girly night out, but I loathe skimpy dresses, red lipstick and handbags

So I am a mix of what people perceive as girly and manly, and that's who I am I guess.....it's just the body that doesnt fit yet