So I finally found a doctor through my insurance who works with trans people. 
I just emailed her to ask her what she required before she would prescribe hormones.

She told me that I would need one of two things:

1) provide documentation of real life experience for at least 3 months (ie documentation of employment, student or volunteer activities in your new gender role, documentation of your new legal name, and documentation that persons other than a therapist knows you in your new gender role)

Or,
2)  completion of Psychotherapy regarding transition for at least 3 months (with a letter from your counselor stating you've gone through this therapy).



Now, they're both three months.  But which is easier/better to do? 

I know what therapy consists of.
But what exactly counts as RLE? 
I mean, I already dress as much like a guy as I can (see my avatar).  everyone at work and school knows I'm trans, even though I don't ever talk about it.  I either told them or they asked me at one point, or someone else told them.
And then a lot of my family either doesn't know or pretends they don't know.

So I'm sure that there isn't good enough, lol.
But what can I do to make it count as RLE?

she mentioned "volunteer activities in your new gender".  what does that mean?  I have to do some activity that only males can do?  Like, assist in coaching a little league?  idk.
And she mentioned "documentation of employment", how does that prove RLE?  Unless I had a job for men only. 

Anyone who can, please tell me anything you know about RLE and how to do it the way they want.

I think you should talk with your therapist and what she considers RLE.   My therapist said the minute I started binding and trying to pass as male that began my RLE..... her thought was that I didn't need to yell it from the roof tops and possible put my self out there for hate crime ---- but I was trying to get the world to see me as a male.

Quoteshe mentioned "volunteer activities in your new gender".  what does that mean?  I have to do some activity that only males can do?  Like, assist in coaching a little league?  idk.
And she mentioned "documentation of employment", how does that prove RLE?  Unless I had a job for men only. 

Nonono, those would be pretty dangerous standards for a doctor or therapist to expect. They don't want you to find a job or volunteer opportunity that's only for men. They just want you to prove you can find a job or go out and volunteer in something, anything, while presenting as male, because this shows you are comfortable in that role and you are experiencing life as your desired sex before they'd prescribe you anything as permanent as testosterone. Basically, they just want you to be completely sure it's what you want.

I'd say therapy for three months is easier because the only effort you'd have to put in would be to see someone once every week or two weeks. But the first option is more ambitious. It doesn't matter which one you choose though. Just do whatever sounds best for you.

Quote from: Robert Scott on September 19, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
I think you should talk with your therapist and what she considers RLE.   My therapist said the minute I started binding and trying to pass as male that began my RLE..... her thought was that I didn't need to yell it from the roof tops and possible put my self out there for hate crime ---- but I was trying to get the world to see me as a male.

I see.  Well that's good.  And how did you, or how would you, prove to your therapist at what time you started binding?  My doctor is asking for proof.

Quote from: tvc15 on September 19, 2011, 10:33:26 PM
Nonono, those would be pretty dangerous standards for a doctor or therapist to expect. They don't want you to find a job or volunteer opportunity that's only for men. They just want you to prove you can find a job or go out and volunteer in something, anything, while presenting as male, because this shows you are comfortable in that role and you are experiencing life as your desired sex before they'd prescribe you anything as permanent as testosterone. Basically, they just want you to be completely sure it's what you want.

I'd say therapy for three months is easier because the only effort you'd have to put in would be to see someone once every week or two weeks. But the first option is more ambitious. It doesn't matter which one you choose though. Just do whatever sounds best for you.

What exactly does "presenting as male" mean here? 
Because I can dress like a guy and confuse people.  but as soon as I speak, everyone knows I'm a female.  And I'm not an overly open person to just go telling everyone that I'm trans.  I will if they ask, though.  I'm not hiding the fact I'm trans.
So how exactly do they want me to be presenting as male?

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 20, 2011, 01:33:02 PM
I see.  Well that's good.  And how did you, or how would you, prove to your therapist at what time you started binding?  My doctor is asking for proof.

I didn't have to prove myself to her ... she took me at my word.  She is very much of the belief that she souldn't be a gate keeper but help you deal with the emotions and impacts of moving into your true gender.   She told me at the first appointment that she would write me my letters and no matter what I said she would write the letter -- that no two people follow the same road to transitioning.   

Quote from: Robert Scott on September 20, 2011, 01:56:03 PM
I didn't have to prove myself to her ... she took me at my word.  She is very much of the belief that she souldn't be a gate keeper but help you deal with the emotions and impacts of moving into your true gender.   She told me at the first appointment that she would write me my letters and no matter what I said she would write the letter -- that no two people follow the same road to transitioning.   

Wow, that's amazing.  she sounds great.
Unfortunately, my doctor wants proof.  and I don't know how to do that.

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 20, 2011, 02:20:01 PMUnfortunately, my doctor wants proof.  and I don't know how to do that.

Make a list of questions and concerns for her so that you have all bases covered. Write down ideas for documentation/proof, and see what she prefers.

A few ideas:

If you don't already own a binder, buy one. Keep the receipt.

If you buy a packer or any other equipment, do the same.

When you start binding (if you haven't started already) take a few pictures, before and after.

Have your friends photograph you doing whatever--going to the movies, getting a hamburger, hanging out.

Use your preferred name/gender in your everyday activities, and have that documented by other people like bosses, teachers, spiritual leaders. Maybe even friends and family members.

Document your RLE in a vlog, blog, or private journal.

Have pictures taken of you burning your old bras, if you have any!!!!

RLE generally means that you have told everyone you interact with on a daily basis that you are male and wish to be referred to with male pronouns. You consistently present as male and basically just go about your daily life as if you were cisgender. That means you wouldn't spend like a week in a dress with female pronouns and then go back to buttondowns and asking to be called "sir." It's just to see that this is really what you want and that you won't have any regrets about physical transition.

Quote from: icontact on September 21, 2011, 12:11:29 AM
RLE generally means that you have told everyone you interact with on a daily basis that you are male and wish to be referred to with male pronouns. You consistently present as male and basically just go about your daily life as if you were cisgender. That means you wouldn't spend like a week in a dress with female pronouns and then go back to buttondowns and asking to be called "sir." It's just to see that this is really what you want and that you won't have any regrets about physical transition.

Well this is basically what I do already.  I do my best to present as male 100% of the time.  Everyone at work knows I'm trans, but they all still call me "she."  Probably because I don't make a big deal out of it, and they'd rather go with what comes naturally with them.  So, in order for it to count as RLE, do I have to get them to call me "he"?

I mean, really, everything I do I do as though I was cisgendered.  I mean, everyone does call me "she", and I don't correct them because they have a perfectly good reason to call me "she", being that I sound like a girl to them and their brain just sees me as a girl.  And I'm just not a forceful person to try and make them call me "he."  Instead I'm hoping that after HRT, "he" will come naturally to them instead and their brains will just see me as a guy.

The Doctor also said documentation of a legal name change counts as proof of RLE.  But the name I chose is a female name in English but a male name in French (I'm half French and half English).

Does anyone think that I would will have a problem defending why I chose to change my name to a female name in English? 
Or will the mere fact that I changed my name at all still make it count as RLE?

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 21, 2011, 12:37:25 AM
The Doctor also said documentation of a legal name change counts as proof of RLE.  But the name I chose is a female name in English but a male name in French (I'm half French and half English).

Does anyone think that I would will have a problem defending why I chose to change my name to a female name in English? 
Or will the mere fact that I changed my name at all still make it count as RLE?

This is a question you should ask the doctor. Seriously, we can only guess at what she expects. Therapists vary so much...

Alright.

Well does anyone know how I would get "documentation that persons other than a therapist knows you in your new gender role"?

I don't really even know what that means. Would I have to get these "persons" to sign something that says that they know I'm trans/male?  that just sounds weird. Especially what if I had the ability to be in stealth.

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 21, 2011, 01:49:58 AM
Well does anyone know how I would get "documentation that persons other than a therapist knows you in your new gender role"?

I don't really even know what that means. Would I have to get these "persons" to sign something that says that they know I'm trans/male?  that just sounds weird. Especially what if I had the ability to be in stealth.

I'm assuming that your family and your regular doctor (if you have one) know? Perhaps a few friends?

If not, I'm sure there are some ways around this. Perhaps ask your HR for a letter that verifies your employment, mentions how long you've been working there, and states what job you do. If you ask for enough specific information to be included, it will be practically impossible for the writer to avoid using a male pronoun at some point. This kind of letter wouldn't need to be addressed to anyone in particular. You would have to think of some plausible reason for getting such a letter, though.

Ask a couple of friends for a character reference in writing. If they only know you as male, they'll use male pronouns.

Get a letter of rec from a teacher.

If you have health insurance through your job, are you listed as M or F? What was your enrollment date?

You might have to get a little creative when finding a reason to request such letters and when dealing with the recipient information in some cases, but I'm sure you can come up with something. Do a little brainstorming, and see if anyone else here comes up with anything.

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 21, 2011, 01:49:58 AM
I don't really even know what that means. Would I have to get these "persons" to sign something that says that they know I'm trans/male?  that just sounds weird. Especially what if I had the ability to be in stealth.

I should also point out that you seem to be imagining roadblocks that aren't necessarily there. Slow down and take a breath. You've already said that the minute you speak, people know. So if everyone knows, you're not stealth now. That means that you can openly ask for letters/documentation from people who have been TOLD that you're male (of course, they'll have to accept that you want male pronouns), and you can be sorta sneaky if there's anyone who already sees you as a guy.

Definitely look into changing/getting a driver's license or state ID, and ask the therapist about names. ETA: I meant doctor--this is a medical doctor, right, not a therapist?

Maybe you're right and I am just imaging road blocks. I can be paranoid like that.

Everyone where I work and go to school with knows I'm trans, because they either asked me or heard it from someone else.  But everyone still calls me "she" because I didn't want to make a big deal out of it and potentially cause a problem.

Even though some people in my family know I'm trans as well.  I still really am not close enough to ask someone to write a letter stating that they know.  If I asked anyone, they probably wouldn't do it, either. especially if they knew why I wanted a letter.  and it's not because they're against me being trans, but because they're not really for me either.  Like, they're all fine with me doing whatever I want, but they won't help me.

So maybe this means that I should just do the three months of therapy.  I guess the only benefit for me if I could have gotten documentation of RLE is that I might not have to wait 3 months.

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 21, 2011, 12:28:20 AM
And I'm just not a forceful person to try and make them call me "he."  Instead I'm hoping that after HRT, "he" will come naturally to them instead and their brains will just see me as a guy.

Don't count on it.  Yes 90% of the people I am around call me he, but some still slip a lot and call me she.  And that's ten and a half months on T.  Better to start getting them to switch over now.   

Quote from: JohnAlex on September 21, 2011, 11:32:51 AM
Maybe you're right and I am just imaging road blocks. I can be paranoid like that.

I hope I didn't sound like I was minimizing your situation--LOTS of people, including me, have this kind of "what if" obsession, and it's not just about trans stuff. I just meant that you have enough to contend with, so focus on what you do have to work with--and when you start to stress out about it, take a step back, breathe, and start again when you feel less freaked out.

Maybe you won't be able to marshal up enough evidence for the RLE, but it's worth looking into and brainstorming about, especially if it will save you money and months of waiting.

QuoteI do my best to present as male 100% of the time.  Everyone at work knows I'm trans, but they all still call me "she."  Probably because I don't make a big deal out of it, and they'd rather go with what comes naturally with them.  So, in order for it to count as RLE, do I have to get them to call me "he"?

That might depend on your therapist.
My therapist says it is how you present, not how others perceive you that counts.

To me, it sounds like this doctor wants either a letter from your therapist stating you have GID and are'fit' for hormone therapy (ie you are not delusional), OR will prescribe via informed consent if you can show you have been living as male.  There are a lot of people who change their names, present as male way before taking T.  Just like some top surgeons will do surgery via informed consent rather than a letter if you can show you have been living as male.

Most of us go to a therapist and get the letter.  Pretty easy unless you have other issues the therapist wants you to work through first.  That isn't very common though, and I think you'd already know if you have other issues.


Jay