Glad to hear YOU ARE NOT LEAVING Fairy Girl! And leave it to Annah to crack the "ANN O" Code!

SJ

Quote from: SandraJane on September 22, 2011, 10:37:55 PM
Glad to hear YOU ARE NOT LEAVING Fairy Girl! And leave it to Annah to crack the "ANN O" Code!

SJ

meh, it wasn't too hard. I cracked the Enigma machine of World War II in my prior life

I remember that day fondly like no other. Other than the X-ray debacle of 1864 It was the one of the most hardest puzzles I had to crack. God knows it probably was just luck because I have messed up these puzzle things time and time again.

Someone gave me good advice once at another forum.  If you want to leave, just leave, anyone that makes a song and dance about leaving is just craving attention.

PoH, Hope you're not considering leaving said forum over less than controversial threads,  that never seem to broaden and awaken  the slumbering giant that remains teathered in
complete submission to mediocrity..

SJ

Quote from: Just Shelly on September 22, 2011, 09:40:56 PM
my opinion of mexican food is different then most.

You too?!   I think Mexican food is fantastic to wear as a hat on a foggy day.  What's your opinion?

I prefer to be naked on a sunny day.


When people leave it's generally because it's time to move on; the place where they are is no longer suitable to their needs so they find a more amenable arrangement.  Some seem to take it as a personal affront that you won't be here to have their loving abuse heaped upon you anymore, but that is kind of a "oh it's all about me" attitude.  Chances are the one who left could care less about what you think, hence the leaving.

If people want to leave and say goodbye to their friends or even make a point to explain their reasons for leaving,  why is that such a big deal?  Oh its easy to sit on your ostentatious high horse and make up all kinds of excuses and assumptions and assign them to others, with implications of "immaturity" and goddess only knows what else.  Actually it's a very mature decision to know when to move on and get on with your life, especially if that means you know you will have to endure the pain of moving from a place you care about when conditions just become too intolerable to remain.

Godspeed to those who depart on their journey, and may they find peace wherever that journey takes them.

I guess I don't understand. I am an 11+ year postop who realizes that, although she is a woman accepted by both those who know and those who don't know her transgender/transsexual background, she is not a biological female. Nevertheless, I am a very happy older woman.

SRS is not the be all, end all; it is one step in a journey that has many possible paths. So, whether preop, postop, or nonop for any reason, all are welcome under my umbrella. And, yes, there is room for all the men (and women) who cross dress. We all face the same slings and arrows from the Religious Wrong and the right wing politicians who pander to their owners' fears and bigotry for money and power.

What's to argue about? Let's fight for our rights together.

Robyn

.

Am I the only one who's noticed this topic was posted on the "Post-Op" Forum, yet a major argument has ensued about surgery itself?

     Why are people who are opposed to the views of many post-ops even reading the Post-Op Forum?

     I'll bet there are those who are sitting in their momma's basement who think they know more than those who hold University degrees, even Post-Graduate degrees.   

      It's not difficult for me to understand why some would put this argument up, for all they can see is the pre-op side.  They can't comprehend that *all* post-ops have been on the pre-op side, as well as the post-op side.  There is a very real and distinct experience that goes with surgery and it *does* change your brain.  Until you've been there, you can't understand.  There is a reason that many post-ops abandon the community after surgery.  They've had all their TG/TS problems solved, they are different, they get tired of immature behavior, as has been demonstrated here.

      I can't help but notice that you don't see post-ops creating a ruckus on the Transvestite or Cross Dressers Forums.  Even though I lived that life for decades, while in denial of my own true condition, I wouldn't do that.   I am not concerned with what they think or do, as it doesn't affect me.  Just as they shouldn't be concerned or affected by post-op discussion.

      In the field of Psychology, there is a defense mechanism called "Projection", in which the individual "projects" their faults upon others.  A person who is a self-centered cheapskate, for instance, will see others as being self-centered cheapskates.  Those who are close-minded bigots will see others as close-minded bigots.  If you tend to think that other people's opinions are OK, as long as they don't conflict with your own, but if they do, that person is a close-minded bigot, perhaps there is a message there.

       If all the post-ops leave, who will be on hand to give advice in the future?   Perhaps each forum should be left to those whose concerns it addresses.

      I'm just sayin'....

The Dragonfly


Once, in a little pond, in the muddy water under the lily pads,
there lived a little water beetle in a community of water
beetles.  They lived a simple and comfortable life in the pond
with few disturbances and interruptions.

Once in a while, sadness would come to the community when one of
their fellow beetles would climb the stem of a lily pad and
would never be seen again.  They knew when this happened; their
friend was dead, gone forever.

Then, one day, one little water beetle felt an irresistible urge
to climb up that stem.  However, he was determined that he would
not leave forever.  He would come back and tell his friends what
he had found at the top.

When he reached the top and climbed out of the water onto the
surface of the lily pad, he was so tired, and the sun felt so
warm, that he decided he must take a nap.  As he slept, his body
changed and when he woke up, he had turned into a beautiful
blue-tailed dragonfly with broad wings and a slender body
designed for flying.

So, fly he did!  And, as he soared he saw the beauty of a whole
new world and a far superior way of life to what he had never
known existed.

Then he remembered his beetle friends and how they were thinking
by now he was dead.  He wanted to go back to tell them, and
explain to them that he was now more alive than he had ever been
before.  His life had been fulfilled rather than ended.

But, his new body would not go down into the water.  He could
not get back to tell his friends the good news.  Then he
understood that their time would come, when they, too, would
know what he now knew.  So, he raised his wings and flew off
into his joyous new life!


~Author Unknown~

Sometimes all that needs to be said has already been said.

-Sandy

Quote from: Re: Joyce on September 23, 2011, 05:12:22 AM
Am I the only one who's noticed this topic was posted on the "Post-Op" Forum, yet a major argument has ensued about surgery itself?

     Why are people who are opposed to the views of many post-ops even reading the Post-Op Forum?

I don't think its that at all.

Recently, there have been some discussion where non ops are not trans because they don't want the surgery. Sadly, some of those comments came from post op people. Also, there seems to be a sense of "it HAS to be the way I did it or no way."  I've seen it here myself this week on several occasions.

Now, of course, I am not just blaming post ops for stating that. Ive seen others say it too, however, some post ops recently have been stating it. Disagreements arise and people are leaving.

   

QuoteI'll bet there are those who are sitting in their momma's basement who think they know more than those who hold University degrees, even Post-Graduate degrees.   

      It's not difficult for me to understand why some would put this argument up, for all they can see is the pre-op side.  They can't comprehend that *all* post-ops have been on the pre-op side, as well as the post-op side.  There is a very real and distinct experience that goes with surgery and it *does* change your brain.  Until you've been there, you can't understand.  There is a reason that many post-ops abandon the community after surgery.  They've had all their TG/TS problems solved, they are different, they get tired of immature behavior, as has been demonstrated here.

I haven't seen that to be the contention of the bitterness. For some (not everyone) post ops I have seen they have used their surgeries not as an expectation of experience but as a voice of "well i am right and you are wrong." Which is fine but when it comes to issues as delicate as telling a non op they really are not transsexual because they haven't gotten the surgery or will not get the surgery, then that is morally and ethically wrong; no matter how many vagina surgeries you have gotten. These are delicate issues and could even make a person suicidal so yeah, it pains me when anyone (not just post op people) start to define for other people who is a true transsexual.


     

QuoteIn the field of Psychology, there is a defense mechanism called "Projection", in which the individual "projects" their faults upon others.  A person who is a self-centered cheapskate, for instance, will see others as being self-centered cheapskates.  Those who are close-minded bigots will see others as close-minded bigots.  If you tend to think that other people's opinions are OK, as long as they don't conflict with your own, but if they do, that person is a close-minded bigot, perhaps there is a message there.

Projection can go both ways.

     

QuoteIf all the post-ops leave, who will be on hand to give advice in the future?   Perhaps each forum should be left to those whose concerns it addresses.

      I'm just sayin'....

I will be having surgery in a month. I have no intentions on leaving. I also have no intentions on telling ANYONE who should or should not be a transsexual and I certainly will not be defining anyone's gender here by what they have between their legs. Thankfully, I will not be the only post op who will think like I do. There are many post ops who are genuinely awesome.

Annah,
You can not know how you will feel/think after your surgery, until after your surgery.

There is allot of merit in what those who have left were saying. Granted there could have been allot less snarkiness in the delivery of that message.

Quote from: cynthialee on September 23, 2011, 08:38:00 AM
Annah,
You can not know how you will feel/think after your surgery, until after your surgery.

There is allot of merit in what those who have left were saying. Granted there could have been allot less snarkiness in the delivery of that message.

When it comes to what or how I feel towards non op transsexuals or towards labels in general; trust me, that will not change after my surgery.

Yes. Things will change. My ethics will not.

Quote from: Re: Joyce on September 23, 2011, 05:12:22 AM
Am I the only one who's noticed this topic was posted on the "Post-Op" Forum, yet a major argument has ensued about surgery itself?

     Why are people who are opposed to the views of many post-ops even reading the Post-Op Forum?

All members of Susan's are permitted to read and post in any public area of the Forum, regardless of how they might identify. Some people read the entire site, others read only the areas that pertain to them. The only areas of the forum that are off limits are the specific groups in Just for Us. When visiting in any area, please respect peoples' identities and post according to TOS.

Z

At the end of the day what is the name of this site? If people have an issue with those who are transgender or with the terminology itself perhaps they should take it up with the management and not with those who do not share their world view.

To be blunt there's no point coming here and putting down people for not being men or women or anything else in the same way as ourselves.

Most of us here have been on the receiving end of prejudice because of our gender, gender issues, sexual orientation, ethnic origin and even religious belief. As such let us try to show some compassion and tolerance and be careful not to do to others what has been done to ourselves. Transphobia is nasty stuff, may we never be guilty of it.

That seems an honest and fair position to all.

Quote from: cynthialee on September 23, 2011, 08:38:00 AM
Annah,
You can not know how you will feel/think after your surgery, until after your surgery.

There is allot of merit in what those who have left were saying. Granted there could have been allot less snarkiness in the delivery of that message.

A good point Cynthialee, and glad to see proper usage of "snarky". The "change" that I have seen other Post-Op's refer to is no doubt real, and that it affects some more strongly than others. Change is a at once both welcomed and rejected, is brings hope and fear, why shouldn't SRS/GRS/GCS be any different. In the past couple of weeks that this issue has raged like wildfire in this forum, and solicited emotions and introspection, and has left few of us untouched including myself.

Change is an action, a culmination of one or more other acts/actions that often join together to create an effect that can create, reshape, modify , destroy,  or halt a process. A detour is also change, a pathway being closed and re-routed either temporarily or permanently, and for some it is no longer a detour but a re-routing or change in direction for their lives, etc.

As some of you may have noticed, my avatar has changed. At first I didn't have one, then an event occurred that prompted me have add the Cougar! It reflected a change in how I saw myself and wanted to be seen, now its the "Bride of Frankenstein", and even that has changed a little. At first I added the "Bride" without assigning it anymore meaning that just being funny...then it dawned on me a couple of days later that my thoughts about SRS/GRS/GCS (I like GCS/GRS instead), had changed, I was no longer afraid of it, and might not "The Bride"be a subtle clue . How did this happen? Not totally sure but the raging debates played a part, and I believe for myself, it was a Godsend to overcome the fear of change, and it also came after I came out to my family from which I experienced a welcomed relief. Better living through Surgery?

Likewise I ( so does Susan and many others ) feel there is a place for all of us here at this table we call "Susan's", but we are also guests at this table and there are certain rules or "Etiquette" we must abide by to remain, our choice.

Back to the change effect of Surgery, some say they were aware of it the moment they awoke from the Anesthesia, it was a feeling of being cured, so what's next? Others it is probably gradual and discovered by a small event, or like turning around while walking to see how far you have traveled or what's behind you.

So do you stay or do you go?

Quote from: SandraJane on September 23, 2011, 09:52:21 AM

So do you stay or do you go?

Sorry, couldn't resist

Thank You MissF! Ha,ha..."I don't even know which clothes fit me!"...

SJ

Quote from: Laura91 on September 23, 2011, 10:07:31 AM
Damn right.

I will never understand why anyone that has been marginalized and ridiculed for being trans would turn around and dis someone else for their own stupid reasons.

So you are post-op? That is great for you (and I am using "you" in the general sense here) but it does not give anyone the right to turn into some elitist prick.

In my opinion the reasons lie in our society and its politics. A history of deference to the status quo, and a mistaken belief in the system of feral capitalism that oppresses us is really there to give us the opportunity to be one of them. Government will, and always has needed its 'enemies and outsiders' be they Jews, Communists or recently Muslims and it will do its best to convince us that outsiders threaten our (in reality their) way of life.

As victims of oppression and prejudice let us have the decency not to walk away and abandon the struggle.

Don't believe the hype.

> cue rousing rendition of the Internazionale

Its because we're HUMAN, we have to consciously fight off this ugly monster from within.

Quote from: SandraJane on September 23, 2011, 11:37:35 AM
Its because we're HUMAN, we have to consciously fight off this ugly monster from within.

Yes. I totally agree.

However, in my opinion only, when an oppressed becomes an oppressor (in the example of how a cisgender person questions the gender of a trans and then that trans gets an operation and does the same thing to a non or pre op trans that an offender had done to them in the past regarding gender identity) then one needs to practice civility and thought when responding to or writing posts of that nature.

It's easy to fall into prejudice and malice or spite in any venue. It takes much more control to practice open mindedness and civility.