why should we feel the need to completly pass as the gender of our true self becoming... as long as we are happy about just feeling the way we should feel.. dont get me wrong but i do want to be pretty and pass, but for who? we want so we wont look like freaks or aliens in the human eye, but who care as long as we are happy right?

look at  disfigured people, retards no pun intended, people born with no limbs, they want to be normal too they want what we desire to be real and fit into a society full of ->-bleeped-<-s and judgement. screw them we are not normal never will be, nor will the others i mentioned, its life.. but one thing is that we continue to do what makes us happy and that is what you decide, not what society deems it is...as long as you are beautiful on the inside , leave the outside to the world... but dont get me wrong you can still be beautiful all aorund....


society is ugly... we just want to be the the norm... not me i just wat to be happy that i can just try to change what is wrong....


thank you all.. and this is for the ones who are scared of the outcome or whatever may be.. just let the course of action be...

Looking like a guy in drag wouldn't make me very happy.

Quote from: samantha1976ts on September 24, 2011, 02:17:39 PM
why should we feel the need to completly pass as the gender of our true self becoming... as long as we are happy about just feeling the way we should feel.. dont get me wrong but i do want to be pretty and pass, but for who? we want so we wont look like freaks or aliens in the human eye, but who care as long as we are happy right? look at  disfigured people, retards no pun intended, people born with no limbs, they want to be normal too they want what we desire to be real and fit into a society full of ->-bleeped-<-s and judgement. screw them we are not normal never will be, nor will the others i mentioned, its life.. but one thing is that we continue to do what makes us happy and that is what you decide, not what society deems it is...as long as you are beautiful on the inside , leave the outside to the world... but dont get me wrong you can still be beautiful all aorund....

You're conflating pretty and passing. They are two ENTIRELY separate issues. You don't have to be pretty to pass. You could be ugly and pass. I'd like to be pretty, but it's not required. Passing - being recognized and treated as female by people in your day to day social interactions - HUGELY important. For me the social aspects of gender are what bother me most, when I'm alone and not interacting w/ anyone I'd like a female body but it's not a big enough deal. When I'm interacting with other people and perceived as/treated male THAT is a huge problem. Why pass? Because for me it's the whole point. I want to be seen as and treated as a female in my social interactions. If I'm passable but not pretty mission accomplished, if I'm pretty but not passable total failure.

I want to pass because I hate being seen as male and being treated as male. It's the worst feeling to me.

Well in a way transitioning is fairly superficial - If we were all androgynous we wouldn't have the need to transition. We transition because the world is seeing us wrong, our minds think our body should be something else. Transition is purely to change how we are perceived. I will never be a genetic woman, I will just look like one; so I will be perceived as one.

Passing is just the logical progression of changing how the world perceives us. If "A" is wrong and "B" is right, then "Kind of B" isn't quite good enough. There are some people - and I believe that they are ahead of the curve, leading our evolution - who are happy being androgynous or gender f**ked; but unfortunately those people are few and I am not one of them.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 24, 2011, 02:23:37 PM
Looking like a guy in drag wouldn't make me very happy.

   Totally agree +1

I just want to pass for ME!

Passing is high on my list of priorities.  I want to be treated as a female by society, by the checkout girl, by the postman, by my work colleagues, by the bus driver etc etc etc.  I want to feel good about the way I look.  It is one thing to feel female and feel mind and body are being brought together, but it is also quite something else to be seen as your identified gender by everyone around you.  Society can be cruel and that will not change.  Passing makes life easier to tolerate and feel accepted.  I'm not saying we should be  a slave to how others want to see us, but the whole idea of transitioning is to become  as close to your identified gender as possible to feel complete.  For me that includes being seen as a woman by others.

I have always strived to be the best or do the best I can in life.  Whether that be career, my male physical body, or now my female body.  I work hard at it and I see results.  Passing is 50% luck and 50% hard work.  We don't all have the same genetics so that is out of control in many ways.  But we can get fit, we can watch what we eat, we can learn to dress and apply make up.  Ultimately if you know you are a woman, let it shine through.  Be proud of your femininity.  This is just my opinion and I know we all have different and equally valid ideas on this.

When I am passing as female with people I notice a big differance than when people know I am trans.

The differance is very pronounced.

I prefer passing to not.

However if I am not seen as female but as trans or worse a man,...what can I do? I can not control what others think.
So I attempt to pass best I can.

I asked something like this a few days ago.

If I don't pass, but those around me still see me as a female and their actions match this, it is fine. If to them a TG person IS a female just like another female, it is fine.

Thing is, only very few people are like that. They look at you different and they talk to you different. So passing is important for TG people not because of any kind of inner shame of being TG, but because we want to be seen as women or men, not as TG. TG is a label.

I've read that "passing" should be restated as "conditional cis-sexual privilege," which I think is accurate, because that's what we are really trying to achieve through "passing".

I've been through the valley of awkward stares and have to say I don't, and never really did, care what people thought of me. I want to look in the mirror and be able to match my reflection on the wall with my reflection in my heart. That and I really can't stand making mistakes, so I tend to make sure I fully understand what I'm trying to do before I actually do it, almost always at the cost of seeming like I'm taking more time than I need.

I agree with Samantha.  Looking pretty as you can is fine, but how you feel inside and passing with your attitude and style is important.  Not everybody can look totally beautiful and if one isn't 100% passable, it doesn't change who you are and how you feel inside.  Otherwise,  there would be hope for a lot us and that would be sad.

Samantha.Stone

I look at it the same way as I look as immigration.

Someone from mexico comes to america and they go through the process to become american. But, there are many people who dislike the fact that they are mexican american.. .so, the person decides he needs to learn how to hide his past. He learns how to talk like "normal americans" and gets surgery to look like "normal americans"... he covers up all the history of his "past life".

That is what we are doing. We don't feel like we are accepted as "full females", so we learn how to be "normal" and blend in like the "normal females". The process of passing is about learning how to cover up the "dirty secret" of our past.

Personally, I am proud of what I am. I just kind of dislike needing to hide anything about myself. Having been born male isn't some negative, it is just a part of where I came from and actually has played a very large role in who I am now. I also grew up in a jewish family, I'm not religious now... should I hide that too because there are people who dislike jews? I say %!@$ them if they have a problem with where I came from.

Quote from: samantha1976ts on September 24, 2011, 02:17:39 PM
why should we feel the need to completly pass as the gender of our true self becoming... as long as we are happy about just feeling the way we should feel.. dont get me wrong but i do want to be pretty and pass, but for who? we want so we wont look like freaks or aliens in the human eye, but who care as long as we are happy right?

In theory, that ideology is well and good, and I agree.

However, here comes the rub...

Unless you happen to be independently wealthy, you probably need a job and will work somewhere. Also at some point in your life you may change jobs. Also at some point in your life you may move from one place to another. Maybe you might need to buy a new car at some point, and you'll walk into a bank for a new car loan. During all these "social interactions", your future will be under the sole digression of others. And one of the biggest things people judge you on, as soon as they meet you, even before you say a word, is your appearance. So unless you don't mind being treated and regarded like a person walking around with yellow chicken suit on all the time... most people try to fit in by presenting as whichever gender they identify themselves as. I'm not saying it's right, this is just how it works. This is not to say we should all strive to look like Hedi Klum, Jennifer Aniston, or Marilyn Monroe... but unless you want to be stared at like the guy in the yellow chicken suit all the time, not be able to attain employment, housing, et al, you might want to shave that beard, learn how to use some make-up, and maybe buy some female clothes.

Quote from: samantha1976ts on September 24, 2011, 02:17:39 PM
why should we feel the need to completly pass as the gender of our true self becoming... as long as we are happy about just feeling the way we should feel.. dont get me wrong but i do want to be pretty and pass, but for who? we want so we wont look like freaks or aliens in the human eye, but who care as long as we are happy right?

I want to be passable later in life because I don't want people to see me als male or as a transsexual. I want people to acknowledge me as female. Being pretty isn't a real concern to me, being passable is.

Quote from: JennX on September 25, 2011, 07:20:52 AM
In theory, that ideology is well and good, and I agree.

However, here comes the rub...

Unless you happen to be independently wealthy, you probably need a job and will work somewhere. Also at some point in your life you may change jobs. Also at some point in your life you may move from one place to another. Maybe you might need to buy a new car at some point, and you'll walk into a bank for a new car loan. During all these "social interactions", your future will be under the sole digression of others. And one of the biggest things people judge you on, as soon as they meet you, even before you say a word, is your appearance. So unless you don't mind being treated and regarded like a person walking around with yellow chicken suit on all the time... most people try to fit in by presenting as whichever gender they identify themselves as. I'm not saying it's right, this is just how it works. This is not to say we should all strive to look like Hedi Klum, Jennifer Aniston, or Marilyn Monroe... but unless you want to be stared at like the guy in the yellow chicken suit all the time, not be able to attain employment, housing, et al, you might want to shave that beard, learn how to use some make-up, and maybe buy some female clothes.

Totally what she said

The act of passing, being taken as a girl on the face value is more profound then mere label. It is reaffirmation of subconscious self within conscious world. Every human being, and I mean every human being does this without paying attention to it. Interactions with others, quick look of a stranger, glimpse into a store window and seeing the reflection of self reaffirming your place among the living, pretty psychologically heavy duty stuff "Normal" people do not think much about but do constantly.

They do not think about it because their congruity of internal with external is in balance, nothing to dwell upon!

Hence, Gender Dysphoria, disjointedness or dissatisfaction with bodies secondary sex characteristic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All Passing is, is the affirmation of what you are on the inside expressing it self within living, material world...................and this function of psyche is one of the basic fundamental means to tell you are you within gender confine.

For me, "passing" is a side effect of transition. I chose to have facial surgery AFTER I already was full time and being gendered female exclusively. My need to be able to perceive myself as female, to have a body I can live with, dwarfs the minimal requirements to pass.

However, as much as we might desire it wasn't so, there is a pretty extraordinary social benefit to passing, and a corresponding cost for those that don't. You can't philosophize that reality out of existence. If you are happy to pay that cost, good for you. If you aren't, good for you too. Of course whether we pass or not is really more a factor of genetics, biology and finances than choice.

Also, if people could stop conflating passing and stealth, that would probably be helpful for a coherent discussion. You could pass perfectly and wear a t-shirt that says "I AM TRANS" on it. In fact, some people do. Passing is a prerequisite for stealth, but it isn't a synonym.