Nope,

psych* evaluation is still required prior to genital surgery, breast/chest surgery, hysterectomy, oophorectomy or orchidectomy.
Only transwomen are required to undergo RLE prior to vaginoplasty and gender recognition in many countries though.

Tippe,
Some doctors do not require a letter for breast augmentation.
Dr. Nguyen in Lake Osewego doesn't. I had one in case he needed it but he didn't care if I had it or not. He does however require referals for orchi or srs.

Quote from: cynthialee on September 26, 2011, 12:58:41 PM
Tippe,
Some doctors do not require a letter for breast augmentation.
Dr. Nguyen in Lake Osewego doesn't. I had one in case he needed it but he didn't care if I had it or not. He does however require referals for orchi or srs.

I guess what was meant was mastectomy and not BA? Never heard about referral for BA.

I have many friends that have insurance coverage that includes SRS and the insurance companies follow the SoC. Under the old variation a person needed to have their name changed before the clock started counting for RLE. I haven't been able to get mine changed and so I had to prove with the Social Security web site that Brandon is infact a gender neutral name. None of the qaulifications for what is RLE exist in the new SoC.

How Government Insurance programs will implement the changes remains to be seen. I don't live in Denmark so I can only sympothize with your concerns.

Huggs

Emily

Quote from: valyn_faer on September 26, 2011, 09:43:12 AM
I disagree. I think this is a step in the right direction in acknowledging that few trans people actually have SRS because most of us can't afford it. And this is especially the case for transmen as it's far more expensive for them than it is for us. Only those who are sufficiently class privileged can afford SRS. In fact, this will only be more and more the case as the socioeconomic inequality in this country continues to grow. In other words, to emphasize SRS, is to privilege the already class privileged at the expense and neglect of the rest of us, and it is, in fact, to ignore the reality that most trans people don't have SRS.

Transgendered people generally don't have surgery...transexuals do. if that makes me sound eliteist then so be it, but I will never truly be a woman while I have that thing between my legs.

There have also been a few articles posted in News Forum about this.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106522.0.html

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106546.0.html

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106527.0.html

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106462.0.html

It's not perfect IMO, but there are significant improvements.

Z

Quote from: Gravity's Child on September 26, 2011, 06:40:11 PM
Transgendered people generally don't have surgery...transexuals do [IF THEY POSSIBLY CAN]. if that makes me sound eliteist then so be it, but I will never truly be a woman while I have that thing between my legs.

A slight edit there. Don't hold it against those who can't raise the money or who are prevented by some other medical condition or whatever. I may never afford it, but i spent uncountable hours every day dwelling on how to make it happen.

if i could sell myself into slavery for a few years in order to have the money at the end I'd do it. But realistically, I don't know how i get from here to there right now.

I defy anyone to tell me I'm not transsexual because i don't get there (not saying you are saying that, just clarifying)

Quote from: Gravity's Child on September 26, 2011, 06:40:11 PM
Transgendered people generally don't have surgery...transexuals do. if that makes me sound eliteist then so be it, but I will never truly be a woman while I have that thing between my legs.

Are you arguing that a large number of transsexual individuals are unable to afford or undergo surgery for various reasons?  I don't think anyone brought up transgender vs. transsexual in this topic...

Quote from: Cori on September 27, 2011, 01:04:39 AM
Are you arguing that a large number of transsexual individuals are unable to afford or undergo surgery for various reasons?  I don't think anyone brought up transgender vs. transsexual in this topic...

this is like the latest hot topic. i was trying to avoid it, but there it is yet again. anyway, i am still female if i get srs or i don't. i don't know if i'm transgender or transsexual, but i've been told before i am transsexual, so that's all i need to know. i use transsexual and transgender as synonyms.

Quote from: Gravity's Child on September 26, 2011, 06:40:11 PM
Transgendered people generally don't have surgery...transexuals do. if that makes me sound eliteist then so be it, but I will never truly be a woman while I have that thing between my legs.

Helena what will you say when you meet someone who says you'll never be a real woman because of your chromosomes?  it's about a reality that people come in infinite types, it's not about external standards which many will never meet because of economic (mainly as pointed out by others in this thread) and also could be the socio-political situation someone is in.  Then there's also some who would never want too have surgery as they are happy.  All are women, what started your journey is a core, no-one is more woman than any other.
Applying standards, even "I don't apply standards" is a standard, when it's all completely personal what we each want and what we are happy with between our legs, I agree I have the something which is completely wrong there but it's a personal thing I need to correct, others wont disagree they'll be happy with how they are in that regard.

Let's just stick to what the WPATH document has to say and our responses to that, pretty please? Because if this is just going to turn into another who's-a-real-woman thread, then really, what's the point.

WPATH doesn't get into that, it's there to support people who are living with gender dysphoria, in its manifold manifestations.

Thanks for the thread... I'll read through the Soc7, and post any thoughts.

Hugs,

Jenny

Quote from: Lexia on September 27, 2011, 03:09:19 AM
Helena what will you say when you meet someone who says you'll never be a real woman because of your chromosomes?

well they'd be wrong...being a woman is actually a social thing...being female is based on chromosomes. And just for arguments sake what if I was an XX male, they'd be doubly wrong then. Besides this isn't me saying that you, personally, have to have surgery to call yourself a woman, but me saying quite honestly that I will not truly feel like one while I have that thing between my legs. And as I stated the revisions change sweet FA for people in my position yet I feel really do risk turning being transgendered into a body modification fetish. Again this is merely an opinion and i wouldn't to think I could tell anyone what to do with their lives.

Possibly shouldn't have posted a response but I merely want to restate my views on the changes and to point out that they are, in fact, my views and not some gind of blanket umbrella statement.

Quote from: Tippe on September 26, 2011, 09:36:54 AMAccording to the criteria hysterectomy no longer requires psychiatric referral. With a lot of countries world wide allowing legal recognition of transmen who undergo hysterectomy yet requiring transwomen to undergo vaginoplasty this instills massive discrimination!

Hysterectomy is not compatible to Vaginoplasty.

Quote from: missF on September 26, 2011, 01:01:32 PM
I guess what was meant was mastectomy and not BA? Never heard about referral for BA.

Nope, version seven requires a referral for BA! (version six did too), but of course many doctors don't follow SoC here

"Breast augmentation (implants/lipofilling) in MtF patients:
1. Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria;
2. Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment;
3. Age of majority in a given country (if younger, follow the SOC for children and adolescents);
4. If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well
controlled.
Although not an explicit criterion, it is recommended that MtF patients undergo feminizing hormone
therapy (minimum 12 months) prior to breast augmentation surgery. The purpose is to maximize
breast growth in order to obtain better surgical (aesthetic) results." (p. 105)

Quote from: Tippe on September 27, 2011, 08:39:18 AM
Nope, version seven requires a referral for BA! (version six did too), but of course many doctors don't follow SoC here

"Breast augmentation (implants/lipofilling) in MtF patients:
1. Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria;
2. Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment;
3. Age of majority in a given country (if younger, follow the SOC for children and adolescents);
4. If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well
controlled.
Although not an explicit criterion, it is recommended that MtF patients undergo feminizing hormone
therapy (minimum 12 months) prior to breast augmentation surgery. The purpose is to maximize
breast growth in order to obtain better surgical (aesthetic) results." (p. 105)

Wow. Living and learning... I know plenty of people who had BA and no one never said anything about it. I guess since most of them go after being more than 1 year on hormones, so the "persistent, well documented gender dysphoria" is so obvious that the surgeons won't care at all (specially cause quite often it's done together with FFS or SRS).

Quote from: Emily Ray on September 26, 2011, 04:21:58 PM
Under the old variation a person needed to have their name changed before the clock started counting for RLE. I haven't been able to get mine changed and so I had to prove with the Social Security web site that Brandon is infact a gender neutral name. None of the qaulifications for what is RLE exist in the new SoC.

Depends on your provider. SoC 7 allows them to require a name change as well as to speak with your related ones such as your neighbor or your teacher (UK Gender Clinics have used that practice I know) although they no longer require it. SoC 7 removes barriers for those who have open minded providers and leaves a hell of a lot of power to the psych* who are not

QuoteRationale for a preoperative, 12-month experience of living in an identity-congruent gender role:
The criterion noted above for some types of genital surgeries – i.e., that patients engage in
12 continuous months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity – is
based on expert clinical consensus that this experience provides ample opportunity for patients to
experience and socially adjust in their desired gender role, before undergoing irreversible surgery.
As noted in section VII, the social aspects of changing one's gender role are usually challenging
– often more so than the physical aspects. Changing gender role can have profound personal
and social consequences, and the decision to do so should include an awareness of what the
familial, interpersonal, educational, vocational, economic, and legal challenges are likely to be, so
that people can function successfully in their gender role. Support from a qualified mental health
professional and from peers can be invaluable in ensuring a successful gender role adaptation
(Bockting, 2008).
The duration of 12 months allows for a range of different life experiences and events that may
occur throughout the year (e.g., family events, holidays, vacations, season-specific work or school
experiences). During this time, patients should present consistently, on a day-to-day basis and
across all settings of life, in their desired gender role. This includes coming out to partners, family,
friends, and community members (e.g., at school, work, other settings).
Health professionals should clearly document a patient's experience in the gender role in the
medical chart, including the start date of living full time for those who are preparing for genital
surgery. In some situations, if needed, health professionals may request verification that this
criterion has been fulfilled: They may communicate with individuals who have related to the patient
in an identity-congruent gender role, or request documentation of a legal name and/or gender
marker change, if applicable.

(page 61)

Quote from: missF on September 27, 2011, 08:52:09 AM
Wow. Living and learning... I know plenty of people who had BA and no one never said anything about it. I guess since most of them go after being more than 1 year on hormones, so the "persistent, well documented gender dysphoria" is so obvious that the surgeons won't care at all (specially cause quite often it's done together with FFS or SRS).

Actually literature such as SoC 6 recommended 1,5 years HRT to allow natural breast development prior to BA. I guess most surgeons will not require carry letters, but some do. Again the only official surgeon certified to treat trans people in Denmark do free BA's, but require prior SRS!

Quote from: Miniar on September 27, 2011, 07:19:31 AM
Hysterectomy is not compatible to Vaginoplasty.

No, they are not comparable, yet in well over 20 european countries vaginoplasty is required prior to gender recognition for transwomen while hysterectomy suffices in transmen.

Thereby the standards further the existing discrimination against women

Quote from: Tippe on September 27, 2011, 08:59:06 AM
Again the only official surgeon certified to treat trans people in Denmark do free BA's, but require prior SRS!

You can get free BA in Denmark? That's cool. In Finland we don't :/ I would assume public health care also covers the cost of SRS?