My roommate is going to think I've gone nutty if he reads this, seeing as I don't really show much interest in Christianity or religion in general. But I spend a lot of time thinking about things like the Second Coming and Armageddon and all that fun stuff.

I'm not really sure if I believe what was written in the Bible word-for-word and I don't attend any church (I've considered going, but I'd rather transition first to not cause any tension). Regardless, I do think there did exist a man the Bible refers to as Jesus, whether he was truly a divine Son of God or a prophet or a mortal who knew a few tricks... (I'm not saying this to offend, I say it only because I've not settled down on any specific beliefs)

But lately I have been thinking about the current state of the world, the wars going on, the changes in world meteorology, resources dwindling, etc. Especially having just read Annah's post about the Rabbi she talked to on Sept. 10 2001, I've been thinking. Some day soon there probably will be a person very pissed off about the world who will stand up against the world's authorities, followed by a growing number of other very pissed off people. And this person will probably be hated and tried against by the rest of the world. And if this person is anything like the Biblical Jesus, he (or she) will probably deny or at least not admit to being any divine figure. And most people, including a lot of the very religiously devout, will not agree that this person is any kind of religious savior because, as Jesus himself, this person will probably tend to the weak, sick, sinful people and show mercy and love, and send a message to others of their wrong-doing and how they've deviated from the Truth and such. (Killing in the name of God, judging and condemning sinners, using God's name as an excuse to hate and abuse others, to name a few).

Having not read the Bible in its entirety (working on it), I've probably got a few wrong ideas. But these are just the things that go through my mind now and then. I'm not sure what I believe about this 2012 stuff, or about Armageddon, or even about God Himself. But there's no doubt that times are changing and the state of the world is getting more and more dire.

What are your thoughts?

Synkronic,

what am I thinking? Look at my signature... :-)

"We can't know the future, only time will tell"

I'm pretty sure Jesus would also not have known, or better not bothered to know, that we now could fly to the moon. Just as an example.

Axelle

Muslims too believe in the return of Jesus/Isa and that he will slay the "antichrist/dajjal" and then all Muslims, Christians and Jews will be united.

There are more Muslims than Christians called "Jesus/Isa" alive today! Fact.

mimpi,

that sounds pretty unknown to me. Should be a better known fact.

In any case my understanding ... he will return for us when we leave this life on earth.

Easy peacy, no need to have any major cataclysm for that. Each one his private cataclysm when we die.

Why wish all this stuff on the young and innocent, babies, children and all?!

Not fond of this idea as far as I'm concerned, no – not at all!

Again, we can't know the future, only time will tell.

We do know that one day we WILL die, and THAT is the only future certainty.

Axelle

Well as that sort of stuff is all allegorical and meant to be approached from a mystics point of view,I wouldn't get too worked up.
Unless you are a committed Christian, what is in the Bible is irrelevant really, the same as I feel about the Baghavid Gita for example.  Interesting as literature, and with some insights into the nature of God and man, but with no religious significance for me.
For me, the Universe will end the day I die, so I will wait until then to see what happens.  A God of love would not destroy the world, so relax and enjoy life. 
Karen.

Quote from: Axélle on September 13, 2011, 04:33:53 AM
mimpi,

that sounds pretty unknown to me. Should be a better known fact.

In any case my understanding ... he will return for us when we leave this life on earth.

Easy peacy, no need to have any major cataclysm for that. Each one his private cataclysm when we die.

Why wish all this stuff on the young and innocent, babies, children and all?!

Not fond of this idea as far as I'm concerned, no – not at all!

Again, we can't know the future, only time will tell.

We do know that one day we WILL die, and THAT is the only future certainty.

Axelle

You are so right that it should be better known how highly Muslims respect Jesus and his mother Mary. Loads of Maryams out there too along with the Isa/Essa (Jesus), Musa , Daud, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Yahya and so on!

And then there's Fatima, say no more

Hah, I guess my little theory does sound a little far fetched. Maybe I'm getting a little too caught up in the "end of the world" stuff... I don't believe the world, nor humanity, is going to end any time soon but I do think something drastic will happen soon. Like a huge change in the world as we know it - that sounds horribly cliche. Oh well. I guess I was thinking about this quite a bit and wrote it to see if I was the only weirdo who thought like this ^_^'

2012 = bull->-bleeped-<-.  You know my calendar ends with December, that does not mean there will not be a January, it just means I have to buy a new calendar.

And.  and, and, and

1.) given the changes in Western calendars since the time the Mayans did that, the 2012 the Mayans figured has come and gone already.  Their 2012 was back in 2006 or so.  And suddenly, nothing happened.

2.) given that the Mayans outstandingly failed to predict the most seminal event in the history of the Mayans - indeed it ended history for the Mayans, and ended the Mayans in history - I'm not going to really get all worked up over their magical powers of prediction.  Tell me TODAY what the winning trifecta ticket at Hialeah is going to be TOMORROW, and I'll start believing.  I want news I can use.

And people have been 'seeing the end time is now and it's going to happen real soon' since that book hit the stands.  2,000 years, we're still here.

And it always cracks me up when God's fan club gets all hot and bothered thinking he's coming back.  Considering how he got treated last time he was here, I doubt he'd ever want to return.  No need for harsh judgement, just sit back and watch us drown in materialism and greed and treating the entire plant like a septic tank.

Speaking of 2012, best theory I ever heard about the "Mayan prediction" is that they simply ran out of room on the stone.   I'm sticking to it!

And the way I see the end of the world (whenever, however, if-ever that may happen) is that my soul will be too busy enjoying the next step of the journey for me to care.

World's not ending in 2012 and I have the definitive proof.

No one, I repeat no one, has placed a bet on it ending whatever odds they were offered.

QuoteAs Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are only the beginning of birth pains.

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come...

"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man...

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

(Matthew 24:3-14,22-25,36)

The hatred of right-wing christians is a sure sign that the end is coming.

Wow,

* "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

(Matthew 24:3-14,22-25,36) *

Now read my signature, even Jesus agrees with it. Say something about making me feel good!

Axelle

Hmm. I didn't say in my OP that I think the 2012 conspiracy is true or that I believe the world is going to end. I did say I think times are changing and more and more bad things are happening (although maybe more and more bad things are being covered by the media). I also said that there will be people who will eventually stand up and try to put an end to all the bull->-bleeped-<- going on, at least as far as man's impact on the world is concerned.

I've been having some difficulty figuring out my spiritual beliefs and this is just one of the things that have been crossing my mind. Lately I've been combining various spiritual beliefs with some of my own ideas. Usually I don't give a damn about my position on spirituality (I considered myself an agnostic for a long time) but for some reason it's been getting under my skin lately.

Quote from: Lisbeth on September 13, 2011, 02:06:38 PM

QuoteAs Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are only the beginning of birth pains.

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come...

"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man...

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

(Matthew 24:3-14,22-25,36)

The hatred of right-wing christians is a sure sign that the end is coming.

Murr. It's things like this that get to me. I know enough not to take it completely seriously but I also have a hard time dismissing things like this as absolute BS. If the Son of God returns, he'll be someone a lot of people hate and no one will even know its him. Who knows, he might be a she and she might be black or Hispanic or Asian or white. And if anything like this does happen, it could be soon or it could be a few hundred years from now.

Anyway, as Axélle says, only the future will tell. I just thought it might spark an interesting discussion. Except now everyone thinks I'm a conspiracy theorist :/ oh well. Maybe I do buy into the media too much.

Even though there is only ONE FAITH their are countless beliefs that spring up every day. I was making me a pot of coffee one day and this came to mind. All beliefs are like coffee grounds all you need from them is what makes that cup. What do you do with them after you get what need?

Quote from: mimpi on September 13, 2011, 10:03:04 AM
You are so right that it should be better known how highly Muslims respect Jesus and his mother Mary. Loads of Maryams out there too along with the Isa/Essa (Jesus), Musa , Daud, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Yahya and so on!

And then there's Fatima, say no more

Since you are a muslim you could do a lot to help teach those of us who don't know much just what muslims think about jesus the bible etc etc .. Maybe make your own thread to do it. But do it where all religions or people of faith here can find it.

thanks for already opening my eyes.

Maybe I do buy into the media too much.

If there is one group of people you can count on NOT to get it right, it's the media - which loves millennial stuff like this by the way.  Sells papers/newscasts.

QuoteBut lately I have been thinking about the current state of the world, the wars going on, the changes in world meteorology, resources dwindling, etc. Especially having just read Annah's post about the Rabbi she talked to on Sept. 10 2001, I've been thinking. Some day soon there probably will be a person very pissed off about the world who will stand up against the world's authorities, followed by a growing number of other very pissed off people. And this person will probably be hated and tried against by the rest of the world. And if this person is anything like the Biblical Jesus, he (or she) will probably deny or at least not admit to being any divine figure. And most people, including a lot of the very religiously devout, will not agree that this person is any kind of religious savior because, as Jesus himself, this person will probably tend to the weak, sick, sinful people and show mercy and love, and send a message to others of their wrong-doing and how they've deviated from the Truth and such. (Killing in the name of God, judging and condemning sinners, using God's name as an excuse to hate and abuse others, to name a few).

..sounds reasonable to me... but then is it necissarily "jesus" or just the next "great person" prophet...messaih...god (hindu)... who knows...

Quote from: Axélle on September 14, 2011, 06:23:55 AM
Wow,

* "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

(Matthew 24:3-14,22-25,36) *

Now read my signature, even Jesus agrees with it. Say something about making me feel good!

Axelle

The best answer on this thread.  I use this on those Daniel and Revelation freaks that are out there with their signs and fliers.  The modern Mayans have said that this is a calendar, folks!  Not the end times predictor.  This is like any calendar, it just flips back to the beginning like December to January each year, except that the Mayan calendar is a recurring one and is not the linear one like the Julian/Gregorian one we all use. 
  My astronomy club president teases me on the next year's draft event calendar that I do that it does not end on Dec. 21, 2012.   We do get a few questions about 2012 and comet Elenin, which will not strike the Earth in 2012.  Other comets have come closer in the near past, even JPL/NASA has came out with a disclaimer on this.   I am a serious asteroid and comet ->-bleeped-<- and I send in the data I collected with my old clunky portable equipment out in the field.   I also do the pretty pictures as well. 
  We all must be careful what we say about natural events such as comets that come close like Halley did in 1910.  There were scares back then when the comet was found to have cyanogen in it.  A lot of 'comet pills' were sold when the Earth passed through its tail.  That same scientist insisted there was a grand total volume of a travel suitcase full of the visible chemical scattered over the millions of miles of space. 
  Remember the Heaven's Gate cult mass suicide and their trekkie-like dress and the castration of some of their members in 1997?   That was caused partly from a novice that reported that he found a 'Mother ship' next to the comet Hale-Bopp with an early model CCD camera.  Hale-Bopp didn't even come close to the Earth.  That person had no experience with astronomy and the equipment he was using.  The 'Mother ship' was actually a bright star that saturated the pixels that it was focused on and causes what we call "blooming spikes" on opposite sides of the star and the blooming spikes change with the atmospheric conditions and tracking offsets over each exposure causing a pulsation of length and brightness of those spikes.  You see this effect on the SOHO satellite webpage all the time on the wide chronograph (LASCO C3) time-lapse movie images when the bright planets come into view. 
  Joelene, Christian astronomer.

  SOHO website with the latest images with links to the various movie formats:  http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html
  The latest movie at the time of this posting of the LASCO C3 has Mercury moving behind the sun with an added bonus of a sun-grazing comet!  Those eruptions you'll see are the coronal mass ejections (CME'S) that causes aurora displays and communications problems if those are erupted in our direction.  We had a lot of those CME's lately, the Sun is quite active now.   The dark filled circle in the center is the pasted outline of the occulting disc, the white circle represents the solar disc.  The shadow from one corner is the occulting disc holder arm.  This emulates an eclipse so the camera will record the corona of the sun, the passing planets and stars from the zodiacal constellations. 

contrary to popular belief, a majority of Christians do not believe in the Rapture, millenia reigh, tribulation theory of the second coming.

Many of these beliefs had originated from second generation US churches such as Baptists, some Methodists, Pentecostal churches, etc.

Other Christian denominations believe the Book of Revelation was John's way of telling the Christians of his time to stay the hell away from Roman Persecution. Also, these churches believe that many of these signs were attributed to the fall of the known practices of Judiasm (i.e., the fall of their temple in AD 70 which had ended their centuries old practice of animal sacrifices and temple worship. For example, two men walk up a hill, one disappears is a sign that the persecution will be so swift that one will be taken away that quickly under Roman persecution.....which was at it's worse under Nero....then it got a little relaxed and then spiked every now and then depending on the Emperor until Constantine.

But the rapture theory was only widely practiced after the late 1700s in America. Movements like the Millerites and the Seventh Day Advent gave way to this form of belief.

If you look at the destruction, warfare, earthquakes, etc today and compare them to the past, it is no different. We had a mini ice age in the 1700s, a huge Earth Quake in Croatia a few hundred years before that, the Bubonic plague that wiped out 1/3 of Europe, tsunamis which destroyed beautiful harbors in the Israeli coastline in 90 AD, earthquakes that destroyed the greatest library of humankind, the dark ages where the longest concurrent period of piece in over 1100 years was only 50 years, etc.

earthquakes that destroyed the greatest library of humankind

I think if you check you'll find that that library was destroyed twice, once by a Caesar, and once by a Bishop.  The Bishop is pretty clearly identified, but the record gets hazy on which Caesar during which battle set the city on fire.