In Psalms there is a verse about God knitting us together in our mothers wombs. I have to assume that he knew what he was doing and knows exactly who and what I am even though the rest of the world doesn't. I believed I was an abomination to him for years. Coming to terms with my transness has brought us closer together because I stopped trying to tell him I know best for my life and started listening to him.

There is absolutly no discussion of transness in the bible. It wasn't even a word until the 1960's or later so how could a book written two to four thousand years ago comment on it. Not to say there weren't trans people around back then. So, if we were around and the Bible remains silent on the issue we must believe that it is not a sin.

Huggs

Emily

just me 94

Please be patient with God and he will reveal himself and his true nature to you.  He does not hate you, he loves you.  He could care less whether you pray to him as a boy or girl.  Paul in the New testament, in Galations clearly states with our new convenant there is neither Jew not Greek, male or female!  God cares about you.  He only asks of you the same as he asks anyone else.  Accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior, accept his presence and love.  He will walk with you and help you decide how you need to live, boy or girl.  You are commanded as a believer to go into all the world and tell others the truth about him, and love one another as he loved.  The bible does not say you are going to hell based on your male/female concerns.  Put any thoughts of self destruction behind you, you have much to offer, and a lifetime to see how much he loves you!

Veronica

Quote from: Slanan on October 02, 2011, 05:37:16 PM
Or it might suggest that Onan was disobeying his father and humiliating Tamar, and disrespecting his dead brother, by going against the customs of the time.  This doesn't apply to male homosexual sex, nor does it apply (as is too often misinterpreted) to male masturbation.  The sin was denying Tamar pregnancy, not masturbation or otherwise "spilling seed".

I agree... if spilling the seed was bad i believe that would have been more explicit, it isn't logical anyways with respect to being a matter of prevention of destruction of potential of life...

Quote
The story could also be used to justify handing over your virgin daughters (yes, plural) to be raped - Gen 19:8 ("Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.").  But that wouldn't probably be accurate either.  But regardless, Gen 19:13 says that the Lord sent the men to Sodom to destroy it - that was before this attempted rape occurred.  Being that He hasn't instantly and recently destroyed any cities with large homosexual populations, I suspect that this was not their sin, but rather it was something unique and particularly ugly.

I agree that nothing is said directly about transexuality, although it does say a bit about eunuchs - not all good in the early part of the Bible (later things were intentionally reversed, hence a Eunuch being entrusted with carrying the gospel to Ethiopia).  Fortunately that commandment, for Christians, is of the same category of not eating shellfish - no longer applicable.  Gal 3:28 also might apply: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

But I also think that the translations of Paul's are very questionable when translated to imply homosexuality (something that they were not translated to mean until fairly recently, either).

That said, there are clear instructions from Paul for slaves to obey their masters - EVEN if the master is "harsh" in contrast to "kind and reasonable" (does this imply that a slave who ran away from abuse and sought freedom is sinning?  I wouldn't even think of saying that) - 1 Pet 2:18.  Jesus himself said divorce was wrong (while saying NOTHING about homosexuality or anything that could even be considered tangentially related to homosexuality) - Luke 16:18.  Women are supposed to cover their heads while praying while men are forbidden from doing so (1 Cor 11:4-6).  Oh, and women aren't to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or expensive clothes (1 Tim 2:9).

Different Christians of course have different views about these.  My personal belief is that some of the specifics of how we should act in society can and do change over time (for instance, women can and should have independent legal existence from men), but that the main threads remain the same throughout time (we shouldn't judge, we should serve God, we should love each other, etc).  Certainly something that is only mentioned a few times in the Bible, and has a questionable translation on top of that (the New Testament verses on "homosexuals") should not be used to form a doctrine - particularly if you've found reasons that slaves should be free to run away from abuse, women should be able to pray without wearing a head covering, that divorce might be acceptable for instance in cases of abuse, etc.  These other things are talked about much clearer and have much less uncertainty around their translation - yet most churches recognize that things aren't quite as black and white as a literal reading might imply (yes, I know some churches still do read it literally).  Of course my view might be 100% incorrect on these things, but I don't like seeing only the anti-gay Christian view presented, since there are Christians (such as myself) that disagree with that view.

From what Latin studies I have done it seems that homosexuality was ridiculously prevalent in roman culture at the time, and wasn't really even referred to, as if it was not even something deserving of a name, in that it was so trivial...

Quote from: Emily Ray on October 02, 2011, 05:58:49 PM

There is absolutly no discussion of transness in the bible. It wasn't even a word until the 1960's or later so how could a book written two to four thousand years ago comment on it. Not to say there weren't trans people around back then. So, if we were around and the Bible remains silent on the issue we must believe that it is not a sin.

In many ancient cultures trans were considered to be spiritual beings...sacred... in some american indian cultures i think...but definitely in Indian cultures...
I believe Nero had the dick of his friend (possible lover) forcefully cut off against his will because he was suggestive of the desire to be a woman...


...just saying.

This was a really good discussion I was shown once: http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-the-bible-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/

@ Emily Ray