Firstly: Mods I apologize if this is in the wrong section, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.

I've been reading a lot of young adult fiction lately, and something has struck me especially in books such as Buddha Boy by Kathe Koja and What Happened to Lani Garver by Carol Plum-Ucci. In these books, and in some others I've read recently, the main character is part of a circle of friends who advise the main character to not befriend somebody, that doing so could adversely affect their position in the social hierarchy of the school. This could be due to the somebody's sexual or gender identity, or religion, or for any other reason.

Do such conversations really happen? Do "friends" actually tell their friends to avoid being friends with others because they're undesirable, because they're too low in the social order?

I ask because I was in the outcasts when I was in high school. Like Brian and Allison from The Breakfast Club, I was among the "weirdos." "The kind of friends I [had] wouldn't mind" who else was among my friends. I certainly was never told by my friends to choose, and I had never told any of my friends to choose.

Themes like these have come up often in the young adult fiction I've read. I'm guessing that the answer to my questions above would be, "Yes, these are realistic conversations and interactions." I'd always thought that comments by Claire in The Breakfast Club were meant to be archetypal since the five characters seemed to be representative of five different types of high school groups. But in reading these books, it seems that even the things said by Claire were accurate. That friends would indeed try to limit who their friends could be friends with.

This is appalling and chilling.

I'd like to say that I'm glad I was part of the outcasts, although that could seem like defending a clique, too. In our case, we weren't a clique really. We were friends who didn't tell our friends who they should or should not be friends with. We didn't necessarily like all of our friends' friends, but we never ordered them to choose Us or Them.

I never realized that even being an Outcast could be a sheltered position.

Yes those conversations happen. I went to twelve different public schools, and sometimes I was popular and sometimes I wasn't. Competition and hierarchy policing isn't always heavy but it's always there in some way, and it can get overt, methodical, and vicious.

It's true, and it's just tribe/pack mentality. If you're in an outcast pack (like the weirdos, the nerds, or whatever) there's often still people you don't want to be seen associating with because they're even further down the social acceptability pecking order than you. It's exactly the same in dog packs, ape prides, etc.

And it's really painful if it's happening to you. But then the people up the higher rungs of the echelon are just as quietly stressed that they'll slip down.

I had a beautiful, rich, talented Portuguese friend years ago, and he once confided to me that he never really knew whether any of his friends liked him, or just liked his money and talent and looks and the aura of alpha he gathered around him. I was amazed that someone so amazing could be so insecure and lonely.

So we just need to overcome fear and make real connexions with people, over and over.

I remember feeling I didn't want to be seen with certain other kids, but (as I remember) it was usually because they drove me crazy. It was a long time ago, and I could misremember.

I asked my daughter if such conversations actually happen and she, too, said she'd heard them. She didn't indicate whether or not she ever participated in such a conversation, though.

There was a boy at my school who has mercilessly bullied because some of the high ranking boys said that he was gay.   This boy soon became known to the entire school as 'Poofy Peavey' and as he was unattractive and very quiet nobody bothered to find out if this accusation was true.    Nobody in class would sit next to him and jokes and comments about him were said out loud even in front of teachers.
   I am glad that I wasn't out as a girl as Peavey's life was made a living hell and he was severely ostracised, in fact I remember that some girls joined in the taunting of Peavey.    I never tormented him, but neither did I speak to him or seek to defend him in any way.   I knew what would've happen if I had done so.   The school's unspoken ethos was that the only way to stop being bullied was to stand up for yourself either verbally or preferably physically.   Some of the teachers even encouraged this by turning a blind eye to certain incidents.