Quote from: Annah on October 24, 2011, 06:20:51 PM
that's what Im reading when I am looking at all of these posts and it wasn't directed at you   Just the thread in general

Oh.
Well that's why I'm on "Team Joey"

Player count: 1


I don't wanna be put on a side.

Quote from: AndromedaVox on October 24, 2011, 05:04:47 PM

Wearing too much makeup will draw attention to you and possibly accentuate more masculine aspects of your face.

Either way your face is going to be masculine, no amount of makeup is going to change that for some people.... It's knowing how to to properly use makeup. Contouring your face so it looks natural...

But hell, if anyone has seen my before pics...there isn't that much of a difference... I do contour my nose, but my nose has always been smaller. I emphasize my eyes because men love girls with pretty eyes.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 06:18:15 PM
Natural beauty like what? Give examples.

Honestly is it even possible I could give an example that would make any difference?  Anything I share it would be said "she would look better with make up".  While that might be true, it isn't true that a person doesn't look good just because they don't wear it.  I don't know where I'd get images of girls without make up.

We have been told how women *should* look our whole lives with representations of that in our media.  The problem is that those representations do not represent REAL women - maybe 1%.  If we adjust our standards of beauty to only the most beautiful then we do our 99% a great disservice and judge them to an impossible standard.  Make up is not bad in my mind, but to say a woman cannot look good without it is evidence of this 1% bias.

That same bias is responsible for the extreme awareness of self that most women face daily putting so much excessive energy and value over their appearance.  It contributes to higher levels of depression in girls over boys in developmental years as well.  It is largely responsible for the disproportionate number of eating disorders among women compared to men.  We should not expect women, or anyone for that matter, to be held to an impossible standard to be 'acceptable'.

Do I believe natural beauty exists?  Absolutely. I see it daily. Could I prove it to you? I imagine not.

Quote from: brIAnna (interalia) on October 24, 2011, 06:28:01 PM
We have been told how women *should* look our whole lives with representations of that in our media.  The problem is that those representations do not represent REAL women - maybe 1%.  If we adjust our standards of beauty to only the most beautiful then we do our 99% a great disservice and judge them to an impossible standard.  Make up is not bad in my mind, but to say a woman cannot look good without it is evidence of this 1% bias.

Real women like the ones who wear birkenstocks and look like Mad Max extras? I see them all the time around SF... I think boring.

Are you getting on the Occupy stuff in this thread what with the 99% and 1%? Stay on topic.

Everyone is beautiful. Most men like me because I look like an everyday girl... But I choose to conform to mainstram ideas cuz thats just what I do and it is what attracts men.

Do I believe natural beauty exists?  Absolutely. I see it daily. Could I prove it to you? I imagine not.

Hey, you might be seeing their personalities, not their faces.
Imagine if these people were mean-spirited and very rude.

Their "natural beauty" would die out.

I see a woman in birkenstocks, no make up and flanel and I am drawn to her.
I see a woman in high heels sporting a Tammy Fae face and I am repulsed.

Not everyone holds the same standards of beauty.

  Oh my gosh......k i think both sides (make or no make) have proven their points. In my opinion makeup is a good thing, but you need to find that balance not too much but not too little. Makeup isn't bad trust me...it's your friend!   

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 06:52:28 PM

I see a woman in high heels sporting a Tammy Fae face and I am repulsed.

Because when I said makeup should be tried out more, I obviously implied we all had to look like Tammy Fae.
v____________________v

I'd be repulsed too lol.
"qurl wut u doin wit yo face?"

Each has their place.   For the day-to-day:  a good, subtle, makeup job will help you pass better... but a bad or overdone makeup job will make it more difficult to pass.  The trick is finding that happy medium.  I think if you had to err on one side, too little makeup is far better than too much.

Most of the time I don't wear any, but that's because I tend to sweat some off and look gross down here in Florida.  I also don't always care to spend the time putting it on, especially before work in the morning if I had to hit the snooze button a few times.

However, if I'm going out for dinner or it's nice outside I'll usually wear some just to look a little better.  It's a personal choice.  A little bit of makeup in the right places can go a LONG way and doesn't take more than 10-15 mins.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
  Oh my gosh......k i think both sides (make or no make) have proven their points. In my opinion makeup is a good thing, but you need to find that balance not too much but not too little. Makeup isn't bad trust me...it's your friend!   

I don't think it's bad, lol, I just find it annoying that ppl say I won't pass or I'll be hideous or whatever if I don't wear it. I would wear it for if I was like going out all dressed up or something.

I don't care who does and doesn't wear makeup. It's a personal decision. To each their own.

As for me, when I go out I wear makeup 99% of the time. Light makeup to work and heavier makeup when I go out to a bar or nightclub. When I'm home chilling, I wear makeup 0% of the time. I don't like going out without makeup. Maybe I'm use to it. It just makes me feel more comfortable in my skin.

I'm not surprised that this topic finally came up, especially since Miki and I have talked about it in the past. I know this subject can be touchy, it is for any woman, trans or cis. I think when it comes down to it, if you want to wear make up, then do so. But do it for you. I love makeup and how I can be creative with it, but I only do it for me.

I do agree with Miki in the sense that makeup can help someone pass, but not only that, but it can help tighten a look, or bring out features that are already there. And Amy put it well, in the sense that you need to find that middle ground. This is why I encourage all of us simply to go out and learn and experiement. Do I want to have to wear makeup every day of my life, and to simpy pass? ->-bleeped-<- NO. BUT! I do want to learn how to look my best, and then go from there.

And I think that is really the crux of what Miki is getting at. If we are going to go through such a metamorphic change, then we might as well do it right. I want to learn to look my best and most polish for when I want to, for whatever reason I choose. Transition is about taking control of our lives and being our all.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 06:52:28 PM
I see a woman in birkenstocks, no make up and flanel and I am drawn to her.

Yikes, I put lemon in my eyes and take tequila shots.

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on October 24, 2011, 08:43:55 PM
I'm not surprised that this topic finally came up, especially since Miki and I have talked about it in the past. I know this subject can be touchy, it is for any woman, trans or cis. I think when it comes down to it, if you want to wear make up, then do so. But do it for you. I love makeup and how I can be creative with it, but I only do it for me.

I do agree with Miki in the sense that makeup can help someone pass, but not only that, but it can help tighten a look, or bring out features that are already there. And Amy put it well, in the sense that you need to find that middle ground. This is why I encourage all of us simply to go out and learn and experiement. Do I want to have to wear makeup every day of my life, and to simpy pass? <not allowed> NO. BUT! I do want to learn how to look my best, and then go from there.

And I think that is really the crux of what Miki is getting at. If we are going to go through such a metamorphic change, then we might as well do it right. I want to learn to look my best and most polish for when I want to, for whatever reason I choose. Transition is about taking control of our lives and being our all.

Who is Miki?

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Yikes, I put lemon in my eyes and take tequila shots.

Well I was raised by a dyke mom and all her friends were the more natual types with body hair and no make up.
So my standards of what I find attractive in women is definatly diferant than the standards of the consumption bassed society.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 09:35:56 PM
Well I was raised by a dyke mom and all her friends were the more natual types with body hair and no make up.
So my standards of what I find attractive in women is definatly diferant than the standards of the consumption bassed society.

My Mom is a dyke too. Let's be friends.

I don't wear some kinds of makeup because it's a real pain to remove. I already have full eyelashes, so I don't WANT or NEED to wear mascara. It's painful and damaging to take that crap off, so I don't wear it. Eyeshadow comes right off, so I go ahead and use it. Lipstick? Same deal, though I don't like the way it feels on my lips so I prefer to go without. Blush is no big deal, so if I need it I'll use it.

I occasionally need to feel pretty and "girly" and dressed up, but mostly I like to just wear BDU pants and a tank top and hit the baseball diamond. I'm an Army brat, and I revel in it.

**admits she has had a tube of lipstick in her front pocket for months**

Loreal colour riche 703 cranberry

Yes I do on occasion wear some make up. I am not 100% oppossed to make up just wearing a full face of war paint day in and day out.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 10:10:44 PM
**admits she has had a tube of lipstick in her front pocket for months**

Loreal colour riche 703 cranberry

Yes I do on occasion wear some make up. I am not 100% oppossed to make up just wearing a full face of war paint day in and day out.

Do you date men?

Since I found out I was HIV+ I have not sought out a man.

Also I am married to Sevan. Granted we are technically open... but I haven't taken advantage of that in the last 5 years.

If I knew a nice guy who was ok with my HIV status and understood that condoms are a must 100% of the time, I might be intriqued by the prospect.


Why would you want to know that?