I rarely cease to be amazed at this forum's skills in equestrian resuscitation.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:44:12 AMthere is no way to tell the difference, based on appearance, between a crossdresser and a pre estrogen transsexual.........unless you know them.   now, I may be politically correct and address them with the proper pronoun based on their presentation but that's where it ends.   

Thanks, that is what I wanted to know. I was curious how you would address such a situation.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:44:12 AMAnd, I dont think in any way shape form or manner does that qualify me or any other post op as being elitist

I wasn't getting at this at all.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on October 26, 2011, 12:45:04 AM
because, some of the things that were said on this forum, were elitist. making claims that someone has to get srs to deserve any treatment or that someone who doesn't have the preop/postop status is an "other" is elitist. it's very offensive.

but then again, when someone throws around that "elitist" term, couldnt that be deemed as offensive to some?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:47:19 AM
naturally, I'm assuming that you are referring to TV and CD's when you mentioned someone who doesnt have the preop/postop status?

I think FullMoon also means non-ops.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on October 26, 2011, 12:48:00 AM
I rarely cease to be amazed at this forum's skills in equestrian resuscitation.

it's much better than talking about some of the other topics, wouldnt you agree?  some really thought provoking conversation?

Quote from: Venus-Castina on October 26, 2011, 12:50:18 AM
I think FullMoon also means non-ops.

I dont include non ops in my thought process lol

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:52:50 AM
I dont include non ops in my thought process lol

Why not?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:51:27 AM
it's much better than talking about some of the other topics, wouldnt you agree?  some really thought provoking conversation?

If by "thought provoking" you mean hashing out the exact same ideas over the exact same topic over and over again 100 different times, then I would agree that this thread is thought provoking.

Quote from: Venus-Castina on October 26, 2011, 12:50:18 AM
I think FullMoon also means non-ops.

i was trying to explain that what was said here before, is that if you don't have an intense desire to get srs or you are not post op, then you don't deserve treatment, and you are not really a woman, but "other." it's just gendering on the basis of genitalia. how common.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on October 26, 2011, 12:48:00 AM
I rarely cease to be amazed at this forum's skills in equestrian resuscitation.

well, I am the chosen one! jk

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:52:50 AM
I dont include non ops in my thought process lol

I see this line of thinking in the same way I would a cis-person denouncing a post-op's identity, and I think this is where a lot of the friction comes from...

Quote from: Cori on October 26, 2011, 12:56:41 AM
I see this line of thinking in the same way I would a cis-person denouncing a post-ops identity, and I think this is where a lot all of the friction comes from...

I fixed it for you...

Quote from: LifeInNeon on October 26, 2011, 12:53:42 AM
Why not?

non op, you're referring to someone who has no desire to transition and seek corrective surgery?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:58:42 AM
non op, you're referring to someone who has no desire to transition and seek corrective surgery?

No, this also includes people who transition in every way *but* surgery.

Quote from: Cori on October 26, 2011, 12:59:20 AM
No, this also includes people who transition in every way *but* surgery.

does this person want surgery?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:58:42 AM
non op, you're referring to someone who has no desire to transition and seek corrective surgery?

If they're doing nothing, they're non-transitioning, not non-operative. And yes, for various reasons (age, money, family, and religion being the primary ones) there are many trans people who are non-transitioning.

Non-op just means that for various reasons (money, medical complications, lack of desire for it) a person simply does not want surgery. That says nothing about whether they transition socially, hormonally, or legally. Would you lump this entire category under "crossdressers"?

Lastly, not everyone who gets it or intends to get it views it as corrective, either.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:02:31 AM
does this person want surgery?

No, not everyone wants surgery.  That's where I see a difference between pre- and non-op.

since you're only concerned with genitals. what about someone who lives as a man, dresses as a man, no hormone replacement therapy, but just wants a vagina because he's sexually excited by it? if he became post op, but is still a man in every way, he is a woman, because vagina equals woman.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on October 26, 2011, 01:08:13 AM
since you're only concerned with genitals. what about someone who lives as a man, dresses as a man, no hormone replacement therapy, but just wants a vagina because he's sexually excited by it? if he became post op, but is still a man in every way, he is a woman, because vagina equals woman.

if he wants a vagina because he's sexually excited by it?  I highly doubt that any therapist in the world would provide a recommendation letter based on that criteria. 

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:10:28 AM

if he wants a vagina because he's sexually excited by it?  I highly doubt that any therapist in the world would provide a recommendation letter based on that criteria.

it doesn't matter.