Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 11:38:25 PM
How many gay men have you hung out with? I know hundreds of them and I've been there. So I guess I don't know my former culture now. Even gay men within the culture see the stereotypes and they are true.

What next? Gonna question me knowing my Persian history?

Post modernist thinking....

You need to stop taking this personally. As in, RIGHT NOW. I don't have to deal with having words shoved into my mouth, and don't think for a second that I will anyway. The fact that you know hundreds of gay men, and even the testimony of those gay men, is absolutely IRRELEVANT to the fact that the behaviors described are not exclusively attributable to homosexual men, nor are they universal behaviors within the homosexual male community. As such, they cannot be described as "acting like a gay man".

This is nothing more and nothing less than a failure to establish a universal argument as valid. Universal arguments fail if even ONE counter-example can be found, no matter how many examples fitting the universal paradigm exist simultaneously with the counter-example. Get it? This isn't about you, this isn't about your friends, this is simply me saying that there is no such thing as "acting like a gay man", because there are no universal behaviors for gay men beyond having a sexual interest in men.

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on October 26, 2011, 11:59:40 PM
You need to stop taking this personally. As in, RIGHT NOW. I don't have to deal with having words shoved into my mouth, and don't think for a second that I will anyway. The fact that you know hundreds of gay men, and even the testimony of those gay men, is absolutely IRRELEVANT to the fact that the behaviors described are not exclusively attributable to homosexual men, nor are they universal behaviors within the homosexual male community. As such, they cannot be described as "acting like a gay man".

This is nothing more and nothing less than a failure to establish a universal argument as valid. Universal arguments fail if even ONE counter-example can be found, no matter how many examples fitting the universal paradigm exist simultaneously with the counter-example. Get it? This isn't about you, this isn't about your friends, this is simply me saying that there is no such thing as "acting like a gay man", because there are no universal behaviors for gay men beyond having a sexual interest in men.

Here my ex b/f is acting like a straight dude:

(I think that may be a ->-bleeped-<-...can't tell)

Guess you were right.

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on October 26, 2011, 11:59:40 PM
You need to stop taking this personally. As in, RIGHT NOW. I don't have to deal with having words shoved into my mouth, and don't think for a second that I will anyway. The fact that you know hundreds of gay men, and even the testimony of those gay men, is absolutely IRRELEVANT to the fact that the behaviors described are not exclusively attributable to homosexual men, nor are they universal behaviors within the homosexual male community. As such, they cannot be described as "acting like a gay man".

This is nothing more and nothing less than a failure to establish a universal argument as valid. Universal arguments fail if even ONE counter-example can be found, no matter how many examples fitting the universal paradigm exist simultaneously with the counter-example. Get it? This isn't about you, this isn't about your friends, this is simply me saying that there is no such thing as "acting like a gay man", because there are no universal behaviors for gay men beyond having a sexual interest in men.

Quoted for absolute truth.  This cannot be stressed enough.

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 26, 2011, 11:58:24 PM
I'm describing things in scientific context, not by political and cultural context. Male and female are biologically distinctive, and this distinction lead to other pschological distinctions, to be successful MTF we must understand the biological and pschological differences, obstacles, and what can and cannot be resolved, while we correct what can be corrected while accept what cannot be corrected. There is a difference between facts and self-acceptance.

There is a biological basis for male sexual attraction toward the female to be based on the image of this human biological default build. The biological reason is that estrogen permanently fixed (stop growing) the default bone structure at around age 13 for female. This timing is considered healthy and biologically attractive to our species (in the universal perception of our species) as healthy mean capable of reproduction, unhealthy development (too much bone growth) reflect lack of the estrogen (or unhealthy reproductive system) or abnormal development. Pschologically male considered a well-build figure like himself to be a direct competitor, thus arise resentment and hostility which is the opposite of sexual attraction, whereas the opposite is automatically associated with the biological sexual object, thus the universal definition of female beauty based on default human build. The fully matured male build was not biologically design as an object of sexual attraction, but as a capable agent of acquiring the object of attraction (female) through stronger physical capability, this is manifest in men's desire for war (in order to achieve money, power, sex), whereas women are the opposite (desire for peace).


The word should mean 'feminine', excuse my poor english.

Just because there are quantifiable biological distinctions between male and female bodies doesn't mean there are quantifiable social distinctions between males and females not ascribable to social construction, and as such, real distinctions between (for example) females and trans females beyond the chromosomal.  And when you consider conditions such as complete androgen insensitivity, the argument falters further.  Their SRY ain't doin' much of anything, even though it's an encoded genetic difference.

This is more evo-devo stuff, and frankly, transsexuality (and, for that matter, homosexuality and plenty of other gender variance) kind of fly in its face a great deal of the time.  It's why I don't lend it much credence.

As long as you understand what I am and am not saying. I don't want to fight with you, and I never intended to upset you. I'm not on these boards to find fights, I'm here to find friendly and intelligent conversation. I'd be glad to have both with you in the future, Mahsa. Maybe sometime we can chit-chat over Persian history, a topic I admit to having essentially NO knowledge of.

When a straight person hooks up with a random person... they are normal, no one even thinks about it.

When a gay person hooks up with a random person... they are sexual deviants and sex-crazed maniacs.

Cool.

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 03:30:01 AM
When a straight person hooks up with a random person... they are normal, no one even thinks about it.

When a gay person hooks up with a random person... they are sexual deviants and sex-crazed maniacs.

Cool.

Last I checked straight people didn't have bathhouses, etc... Ever been to Folsom street fair? Men blow each other randomly on the streets.

SF has 5 gay sex clubs, 1 co-ed sex club, and 1 kink place. Promiscuity is encouraged in the gay culture at large. Again, unless you're part of that culture...you'll never know.

As for trans women who used to be gay men, I suppose there is some carry over.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 03:35:27 AM
Last I checked straight people didn't have bathhouses, etc... Ever been to Folsom street fair? Men blow each other randomly on the streets.

Really? Because I live down the street from a couple strip clubs? TONSSSSSSS of straight prostitutes around and plenty of other things like that. Of course, straight people also have sex in public... and do some kinky stuff to eachother.

Ever been to mardi gras?

The thing is, straight people being overly and publicly sexual is SOOOO mainstream that we don't even notice it. Heck, in football, you have them dressing up women in almost naked outfits to dance around for them! If gay guys were to have a sport and dress up half naked and dance around, we would all look in disgust at the "perverted behaviour".

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 03:43:14 AM
straight people also have sex in public... and do some kinky stuff to eachother.

Mostly straight males with paid prostitutes, no descent cis female will associate with such activities which is purely for sex. Cis females are not sexually oriented, and very conscious of what is indecent and what is perverts. Even for the few cis women who would pay for the service of male prostitutes did so in revenge toward their unfaithful partner and not for purely sexual reason. Though they are cases of sexual obsession (due to mental disorder) that exist in female, it doesn't belong to the majority of mentally healthy cis women.

You associate straight versus non-straight with regard to the issue of promiscuous which is incorrect. Promiscuous has nothing to do with being straight or non-straight (gay) but has to do with the male consciousness. So both straight males and gays who are male conscious oriented about themselves will be more promiscuous than those with female subjective consciousness (cis women, genuine MTFs, lesbians).

I'd say - because that's what they are, gay men.
Just a bit confused I guess, ->-bleeped-<-e happens, eh?

Axelle

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 27, 2011, 07:38:08 AM
Cis females are not sexually oriented, and very conscious of what is indecent and what is perverts.

LOL nope... there are plenty of super frisky girls. The idea that girls don't like or enjoy or seek out sex is very...old fashioned.

I know plenty of girls who go after that. Of course, they aren't running around telling people (wonder why), but they chat about it with their friends a lot.

The idea that a woman wanting sex is because of a mental disorder? hahaha, that is a good one  

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 27, 2011, 12:27:06 AM
Just because there are quantifiable biological distinctions between male and female bodies doesn't mean there are quantifiable social distinctions between males and females not ascribable to social construction, and as such, real distinctions between (for example) females and trans females beyond the chromosomal.  And when you consider conditions such as complete androgen insensitivity, the argument falters further.  Their SRY ain't doin' much of anything, even though it's an encoded genetic difference.

Due to standard biological parameters exist as binary genders that relatively affect the pschological parameter, the rest of the pschological gender variants can be accurately measure in degrees based on this parameters as their standard quantification. In other words, the diversity of gender variants does not invalidate the basic parameter exists as a binary gender but support them both ways, i.e. one can quantify the division of pschological binary gender (subjective and objective consciousness) within both lesbians and gays relationship.

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 08:06:55 AM
The idea that a woman wanting sex is because of a mental disorder? hahaha, that is a good one

I mean being obsessed with the idea of sex all the time is not normal for cis women (because it is normal only for male behaviour), it is okay for cis women to want sex but with conditions of stable relationship and emotional involvement.

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 27, 2011, 07:38:08 AM
Mostly straight males with paid prostitutes, no descent cis female will associate with such activities which is purely for sex. Cis females are not sexually oriented, and very conscious of what is indecent and what is perverts. Even for the few cis women who would pay for the service of male prostitutes did so in revenge toward their unfaithful partner and not for purely sexual reason. Though they are cases of sexual obsession (due to mental disorder) that exist in female, it doesn't belong to the majority of mentally healthy cis women.

You associate straight versus non-straight with regard to the issue of promiscuous which is incorrect. Promiscuous has nothing to do with being straight or non-straight (gay) but has to do with the male consciousness. So both straight males and gays who are male conscious oriented about themselves will be more promiscuous than those with female subjective consciousness (cis women, genuine MTFs, lesbians).

Thanks, but it doesn't work that way.  (First of all, blanket statements like "cis females are not sexually oriented" are not only weird sweeping generalization, but also wrong.)  The fact that I choose to express my sexuality with pride doesn't mean that I'm secretly engaging in a cis male kink or that I'm not a "genuine" transsexual.  It means I'm a proud female who isn't afraid to be open and out about her sexual orientation.  I can choose to want casual sex over a relationship and if you think that makes me less of a female, then you're making totally false judgments.

Promiscuity doesn't have anything to do with intrinsic maleness; it's perpetuated by a culture that rewards male promiscuity and punishes any expression of sexuality by females.  This is propelled by two different dichotomies: the stud/slut double standard and the Madonna/whore dichotomy.  In both cases, women are criticized heavily for owning their own sexuality, whereas for men it is permitted or even lauded.

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 27, 2011, 08:16:29 AM
I mean being obsessed with the idea of sex all the time is not normal for cis women (because it is normal only for male behaviour), it is okay for cis women to want sex but with conditions of stable relationship and emotional involvement.

Wow, this is really sexist.  Like, blatantly so.

This stereotype hurts men and women.  See above!  Turns out female-identified people can like casual sex!  Imagine that.

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 27, 2011, 08:16:29 AM
I mean being obsessed with the idea of sex all the time is not normal for cis women (because it is normal only for male behaviour), it is okay for cis women to want sex but with conditions of stable relationship and emotional involvement.

Lol you need to meet / chat with some more women In the 20-30 age range maybe.

Quote from: Rabbit on October 27, 2011, 08:52:54 AM
Lol you need to meet / chat with some more women In the 20-30 age range maybe.

Thank you for being a reasonable human being.

First time I encountered fisting it was a cis female that showed me the ropes....

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 27, 2011, 08:16:29 AM
I mean being obsessed with the idea of sex all the time is not normal for cis women (because it is normal only for male behaviour), it is okay for cis women to want sex but with conditions of stable relationship and emotional involvement.

You need to get your head out of sexist western doctrine and into the real world

Noting a decided lack of reality here...

+ 1 tekla

oh my....

Axelle
PS: Why does the word "Kindergarten" keep coming up for me?