I've been dressing, presenting, and living as a female for months now, and the greatest frustration that I have in regards to this is when I dress in my more masculine clothing, and all the sudden start being treated as I did before I started presenting as female.

If I wake up in the morning and decide that I don't feel like wearing a blouse and skirt, or a fancy dress and wear a pair of jeans and a t-shirt it's as if I've gone back to being a male 24/7 despite the fact that I'm wearing nail polish, eyeliner, foundation, lipgloss, etc.

I am so pissed that a biological female can be lazy one day and still get by as a female, but a trans woman can't be lazy and wear a wifebeater and jeans like all of the other lazy broads out there without being refered to as "he" or having all my friends asking "so, what, did you wake up feeling masculing this morning?"

No, damnit, I woke up feeling tired and lazy.  We can't all be ladies twenty four seven.  If a biological female can get by with being a tomboy for a day why can't I.

Just because I don't dress to be a bombshell ultra-femme seductress doesn't mean I don't still identify as a female.

Anyone else get frustrated with this?

   Hmm i guess it depends on the person cuz i have no problems being a lazy lady on certain days. When i know i'm not going anywhere i either stay in my pajamma's or i slip on one of my old band tee-shirts and some jogging pants, yes they're the kind that say P I N K down the leg. 

I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is more regarding gender neutral/more masculine clothing.

I'm just pissed that girls can dress like men and still pass as females, but a feminine looking m2f dressed masculine/gender neutral is generally still treated as a boy/man.

Maybe it comes down to the fact that I still don't pass 100% of the time, but I guess for someone born a male who has taken no hormones, nor had any surgery, even passing 80 to 85 percent of the time is pretty damn good.

maybe I should just quit bitching and always wear skirts and dresses, but it still pisses me off that I can't wear a wifebeater and gym shorts without being outed as a biological male

I have my lazy days and haven't noticed what you mean.
I do yardwork in old jeans, been known to grocery store/gas station without doing my hair. Old clothes slowly become house and work stuff, but its not male mode. that went away a Loooong time ago.
I wear skirts alot, often longer demin ones or peasant/hippie styles, my hails are long and my friends have commented on on my "flats days" as they are pretty rare but I've never been a bombshell ultra-femme seductress, just a woman.

   Some biological women actually do deal with what you deal with. Some masculine women are read as men, and theyre not even trans.
Also, many biological women, if they decide to take a lazy day, are disrespected as women. Everything you're feeling is the result of rampant sexism in our screwed up society. 
I think we need to, as trans women, look through an obvious lens, we didn't grow up in the social construction being read as women so when society has a chance, they'll jam me straight back into the assigned gender they want me to stay in. As a trans women, which I see as a separate gender, I need to not just accept that. I need to correct people. Wear your jeans and tshirt, but be prepared to correct a friend if they suddenly use male pronouns.
The lens i'm talking about is my own way of surviving sexism, my chin is up. I'm sick of the gender battle, i'm just me. But I think we need to realize our privileges and either accept how we're treated, or correct people until they stop doing it.

i understand your frustrations and I'm sure they are very frustrating for you but I think it all depends on each individual. For example, I wear jeans and sweatshirts often and I don't get clocked.

I never really dwelled on the reasons why or anything like that but I am sure these experiences are different for everyone.

If you can show us pics of yourself dressed "lazy" then we can offer some suggestions to you.

    Oh i'm sorry, i didn't understand what getting at. So your just frustrated that you get misgendered while in male clothing? Well if the male clothing you wear is really guyish then yeah obviously your gonna have problems, even cisgendered women will get strange looks if what they're wearing seems too masculine. I think it has to do more with passing then anything else, women have those gender markers (face & body) that allow them to get away with wearing guy cloths. I remember when i was still partime i started having alot of trouble passing in male cloths & that's when i knew to go fulltime. 

If you are not very passable and you wear male clothing than you will probably just look male. I know many females who go out in sweats and baggy hoodies but you can still tell they are female usually by things like breasts and facial features. Most females look like females and that's a fact, with or without make up or feminine clothing that's just how it is. I have been through the same situation as you and that is what i realized. Most bio women who are confused for men are usually masculine women, kind of like butch women who do fades, wear men's clothes, etc. Im being brutally honest here, if you dont pass well as a woman then you cant really blame people for seeing the male version of you, that's why most transsexual's opt for hormones, surgery, etc. Female's are born with feminine features, bodies, faces,etc so even when they are dressed like they just woke up they will look female. It's not really a double standard and just because you have a french manicure or pink nail polish on people are not going to automatically assume you are a woman or even a transwoman. Like i said i been through this, im just giving advice

You say you've been doing this for months. that's a short time. Your friends and neighbors (rightly or wrongly) still probably have a lot of memories of your former self.
wearing mens clothes is a big reminder of that and pronoun slips are bound to happen.

Um... maybe you should get on some hormones then, if you're not already. Clothes and accessories alone will not do it. If you look sufficiently female, and sound feminine enough, you shouldn't be bothered like that.

Like you said, it has only been months.

Give it time.

I used to be very frustrated with this when I started transitioning, but I have plenty of lazy days now and never get read. Stay positive! It will get better.

it's just the idea most people have that if you're changing sex, you must be doing it because you have a clothing fetish. they act as though it is a crossdressing matter. i would challenge it by asking one of the women who ask you that question with "well, you're wearing the same thing so you must be feeling pretty male as well." wearing a dress and heels is simply not practical 24/7. i don't wear any skirts, no dresses. i wear jeans, and sneakers with whatever blouse. most days i stay home, i don't even get out of what i've worn to bed. what is the point? am i guy for staying in what i've worn to bed? no, it just means i'm a human being.

Um... tomboy is my standard operating mode. Though the way I do it, it isn't really lazy. Just different. I haven't been read as male since the 5 month mark on HRT.

And yes, it puts a ton of extra pressure on your face and body to gender you female, but it is hardly impossible. See where you are at after awhile on HRT. And, of course, there is always surgery.

I was terrified I'd have to wear skirts and makeup to be gendered female consistently. Thankfully it didn't work out that way. I still don't own a skirt.

I spend most of my time in trackies and Tees, I'm I only get dolled up when I want to, and usually have to take a pic as it is so rare. So my avatar is a pretty rare look at me. I don't care id I get clocked or not. If you forget about it, it doesn't matter. And the less you care about it, the more natural you are.

I'm me; a good looking woman a far as I am concerned, if anyone has a problem with that, I'l ask them send me a post card.

Cindy

Hate to say it. But that's life.

I work in cosmetics and I accept what I am in the order of females. My female friends are absolutely supportive of me, but I'd never consider myself on equal ground with them. Especially when I was their gay best friend.

Now are they cool enough not to out me to men? Definitely. But I know I am the gay best friend, except we go shopping. It's something I think about for about a minute and get on with my life.

Being born female and becoming female are always gonna be two different things in the larger girl world. I hate to say it, but there's a heirarchy here and there's a heirarchy in their world. It's life I suppose.

Quote from: Elsa.G on October 31, 2011, 05:00:35 PMIf you are not very passable and you wear male clothing than you will probably just look male. I know many females who go out in sweats and baggy hoodies but you can still tell they are female usually by things like breasts and facial features. Most females look like females and that's a fact, with or without make up or feminine clothing that's just how it is.

This. It sucks big time. But as you progress more and more in your transition, you should be able to get away with it at some point.

I hate it when you guys are right

ftms have sorta the same problem..

I am not very maculine, and I enjoy having on some colourfull clothes or something who are girly, or long hair, and then people think I must be a girl.
cis-guys can be as femenine they want and still be read as  just femenine males, but for ftms without homones theres no other way than being macho,
I hope my T can help alittle on my aperience part.

Don't worry Natkat.
You're FTM. Give it time and you will pass without a problem. FTM get allot of passing privilage once they have been on T for awhile.