Quote from: Natkat on November 01, 2011, 01:33:24 PM
ftms have sorta the same problem..

I am not very maculine, and I enjoy having on some colourfull clothes or something who are girly, or long hair, and then people think I must be a girl.
cis-guys can be as femenine they want and still be read as  just femenine males, but for ftms without homones theres no other way than being macho,
I hope my T can help alittle on my aperience part.

Thank you.  I really appreciate this response.  I really feel like you have an understanding of my frustration.

Quote from: cynthialee on November 01, 2011, 01:36:54 PM
Don't worry Natkat.
You're FTM. Give it time and you will pass without a problem. FTM get allot of passing privilage once they have been on T for awhile.

I know T is a great soap of magic, even thought I still got mistaked for a girl -__- (been on T for 5-6- months)

but generally its kinda annoying, a ftm I know was showed on tv and I got told it where great he was showed, because he
looked like a guy, and then it where more easy for people to acept..
=___= it annoying me so much of these steryotypes,

get them often like;
"so since your a guy you dont like pink" (yes I do)
"so you like women right" (I guess I like men better)
"so bet you watch football" (no projeckt runway)
"you should cut you hair to be more boyish" (why, boys with long hair are hot!)
bla bla and the great statement of "if you ____ so why dont you just stay female"

I actually enjoy femenine clothes, and I dont mind dressing up, the thing is it dosent make me a girl it makes ma a femenine guy or
a crossdresser if its all the way, but not a girl.

It seems really hard for people to get their heads around that kind of stuff. My family had more trouble with understanding the tomboy thing than the trans thing. I hate pink, I like girls, my hair is in an androgynous cut, and I usually wear clothes that could come from the men's or women's section equally. Still a girl.

People come in all kinds. Why are trans folk expected to embody the stereotypes? It's absurd.

While I much prefer dresses and skirts to send that unambiguous message of "Hey, this 6'2" (in heels) person with the long hair and makeup is a woman", I do slum it, for me; jeans and a nice top and some makeup. But certainly not dressed in my I'm doing the brakes, or changing the oil guy stuff. Nope, if I want to remotely pass (Which I am NOT brave enough to think F'm) I need to rely on using all the other visual clues I wasn't lucky enough to be born with. So fem jeans and tops that say girlie, accentuate my figure and a 10 minute face.

You know, this topic comes up a lot and I'm really confused.

What about being lazy forces you to wear men's clothes? You can't throw on a basic top or something?

People read you as male because first of all, you have a lot of things working against looking female. If you add more things on top of that, well what do you really expect?

Secondly, most women actually dress like women, most of or all the time. Just because some wear their boyfriend's hoodies or something doesn't mean it's an everyday sight. They still pass because they don't have masculine features to worry about.

I don't understand why a lot of MTFs seem to have a problem with just dressing like a woman. Isn't that what you want?  I'm not trying to say you have to dress like a woman, but of course if you don't it's naturally going to make it harder to pass. You should expect that.

Quote from: pretty on November 01, 2011, 08:26:49 PM
You know, this topic comes up a lot and I'm really confused.

What about being lazy forces you to wear men's clothes? You can't throw on a basic top or something?

People read you as male because first of all, you have a lot of things working against looking female. If you add more things on top of that, well what do you really expect?

Secondly, most women actually dress like women, most of or all the time. Just because some wear their boyfriend's hoodies or something doesn't mean it's an everyday sight. They still pass because they don't have masculine features to worry about.

I don't understand why a lot of MTFs seem to have a problem with just dressing like a woman. Isn't that what you want?  I'm not trying to say you have to dress like a woman, but of course if you don't it's naturally going to make it harder to pass. You should expect that.

it's not passing that is the issue. the person who started the thread was talking about how the people she is friends with expect her to always dress in ultra feminine clothes, and that if she is dressing down one day it must be because she "feels more masculine." she didn't say that she has a problem with dressing as a woman. people dress differently for different times.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on November 01, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
it's not passing that is the issue. the person who started the thread was talking about how the people she is friends with expect her to always dress in ultra feminine clothes, and that if she is dressing down one day it must be because she "feels more masculine." she didn't say that she has a problem with dressing as a woman. people dress differently for different times.

Well, maybe new friends are in order, but again, most cis girls don't do this so of course it stands out. For those people you can't really be surprised that it would be confusing because it seems wishy-washy. People can't just magically ignore someone's appearance. If someone looks like a guy and is even wearing men's clothes not everyone can just pretend to not notice that.

Quote from: pretty on November 01, 2011, 08:26:49 PM
I'm not trying to say you have to dress like a woman, but of course if you don't it's naturally going to make it harder to pass.

  I think it depends on the person. In response to this topic i went out grocery shopping today dressed in full male clothing (baggy shorts, band tee, and skater shoes) no makeup and didn't style my hair. A couple walks past me and the guy says "why is that girl in guy clothes...halloween's over?" his girlfriend starts whispering to him and all i heard was "lesbian" LOL.


  I personally don't get all dressed up when i don't plan on going anywhere. When i do go out i ususally dress very feminine but sometimes i'll throw on one of my old guy hoddies or a band tee-shirt with girl jeans, it really just depends on my mood atm.
   

Quote from: pretty on November 01, 2011, 08:48:58 PM
Well, maybe new friends are in order, but again, most cis girls don't do this so of course it stands out. For those people you can't really be surprised that it would be confusing because it seems wishy-washy. People can't just magically ignore someone's appearance. If someone looks like a guy and is even wearing men's clothes not everyone can just pretend to not notice that.

most cis girls don't dress in jeans and a tshirt? the concept of a woman only allowed to wear dresses all the time seems rather 1950's.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on November 01, 2011, 09:07:06 PM
most cis girls don't dress in jeans and a tshirt? the concept of a woman only allowed to wear dresses all the time seems rather 1950's.

I think Pretty was referring to the issue that the OP should wear girls jeans and girls t-shirts vs a pair of men's jeans and a men's shirt.

I didn't get out of her comment that she had to wear dresses all the time to pass

  Some of you do pass even with a t-shirt and jeans.  Myself, I plead nolo contendere about every time I see a cis-woman.  I have hips and a little boobs, but the rest still screams male after nearly a year on HRT.  My age doesn't help here anyway, a lot of the middle-aged gynocomastic men bigger than me.  I am in this transisition for peace of mind for the most part.  But I would like to be treated with the respect from others that I didn't have as a man. 
  Joelene

Quote from: Annah on November 01, 2011, 09:19:16 PM
I think Pretty was referring to the issue that the OP should wear girls jeans and girls t-shirts vs a pair of men's jeans and a men's shirt.

I didn't get out of her comment that she had to wear dresses all the time to pass

Yes, this is what I meant.

It's not really about the type of clothing but the style of it. If it's a baggy men's shirt and jeans then it will definitely hurt passability (and the appearance of femininity in general). I remember reading "a wife beater and gym shorts," for example. There is a very broad middleground between that and frilly dresses.

I just don't really understand why the little daily effort to appear feminine would be an annoying thing. We are very lucky to live in a time where transition is both socially and medically possible to begin with. Maybe in the future people will have no preconceptions about gender and everyone can be a boy one day and a girl the next and nobody will think anything of it, but for now I think the little extra effort to maintain a consistent feminine appearance should be very much worthwhile.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on November 01, 2011, 09:07:06 PM
most cis girls don't dress in jeans and a tshirt? the concept of a woman only allowed to wear dresses all the time seems rather 1950's.

Our local congressman wanted to pass a law for women to only wear sexy dresses at work.

I think I accidently voted for him...he had a cool name.

Another part of the issue is a matter of people being people. As far as I have so-far encountered, at least among the under-30 group, not caring about what other people think is a rather popular attitude. While, when properly applied, this is mostly a positive view, it is also often misused in that people tend to be careless and insensitive at times; often this is for humour, because when people take someone seriously, the insignificance of such issues as a correlation between your dress and gender identity becomes much more apparent.

I'm no fan of the double standard, but the only way it will end is when there is enough education in the world for people to know better. For now, it's just a matter of patience, and choosing who to be around - preferably, people who take you seriously.

I'm sorry that you feel frustrated by this, and that it had to happen. I hope venting helped a little... but if you continue to be annoyed by this, spreading some education, or otherwise combatting the cause of the situation, is often fulfilling enough to end such negative emotions .

Be well. You're entitled to a little laziness - although, it helps if your laziness is femininely-cut. quality-of-lifewise.

if you've decided you're TS and want to be seen and live as such why keep any previously gendered clothing or previous life?
You want to change and be seen as new so just throw out all the old stuff and make sure everyone sees the new you.
I had a big bonfire of all the male stuff the day I got my name change.

Quote from: lilacwoman on November 07, 2011, 01:00:19 AM
if you've decided you're TS and want to be seen and live as such why keep any previously gendered clothing or previous life?
You want to change and be seen as new so just throw out all the old stuff and make sure everyone sees the new you.
I had a big bonfire of all the male stuff the day I got my name change.

Because clothing shouldn't be inherently gendered and you should be able to wear whatever you want and not have the legitimacy of your gender questioned?

I got rid of almost all of my male clothing, and now I'm sort of regretting having done so, since there are pieces I find I miss.

I find it very strange. I get called male at work and by family but with my shoulder length hair no makeup ever I get called a women in public. Doesn't matter if I'm wearing a skirt, jeans, kaki pants, etc. For whatever reason I get called a women all the time. I love it since I am mtf but my family who I have told I am trans hates it all they can think of is that I am a full male and can't seem to get over the fact that I am changing and can pass as a women without even trying.

I kinda felt this way for a while when i went full time. i would totally go all out just to go to the supermarket or something cuz i didnt think that without all the makeup an stuff i wouldnt pass. one day tho, i went shopping with a friend who wore no makeup and a tshirt and jeans at the mall and i realized that most women dont get dolled up just to go run errands. now im kinda on the opposite end, its jeans ( or shorts depending on how hot it is) and a tshirt almost all the time. i learned there are things you can do like accessorizing with jewelery that helps femenize an outfit. anyways, even in just a tishirt ive never had problems passing.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 06, 2011, 11:59:34 PM
Our local congressman wanted to pass a law for women to only wear sexy dresses at work.

I think I accidently voted for him...he had a cool name.

that's why i don't participate in democracy. i would probably do the same 

One time I went to the restaurant with the therapy group I was in. The women were all visibly trans and I saw the reactions of people. They were all wearing jeans and t-shirt and I was just dressed like a femmie gay boy. All of them got "sir'd"(except me)

People notice. I think if you have very masculine features, no jean or tshirt will save you from being clocked.