Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 12:06:21 PM
Before you go getting yourself incarcerated, I'd like to point you towards some information on the situation of trans people in Pennsylvania's prison system: This is a Prison, Glitter is Not Allowed

Also, to all respondents, not everyone in prison (and this especially applies to the U.S. where even minor drug use or sex solicitation can land you in prison) is a murderer or thief or child molester. In addition to that, I'd rather view this in a way that validates transgender-related surgeries as "medically necessary" (and therefore deserving of ubiquitous insurance coverage) instead of ranting about how 1 penny of your tax dollars that will probably get refunded anyway might go to a prison's healthcare system.

There really wasn't much info about FTM's and how MTFs were treated wasn't surprising. 

Treatment FTMs mentioned.

Fighting and getting sent to the hole.
Not being allowed to have a roommate after getting in too many fights.
Relationships aren't allowed.

Those conditions are unrelated to being trans.



Some were treated differently by doctors.
If you were obtaining hormones illegally there's a good chance you won't be getting them in prison.
FTMs chosen names aren't usually linked to their legal name as an alias so contacting them by chosen name can be difficult.

I've already experienced different treatment from doctors. I will soon obtain hormones legally. If I actually decided to go this route for SRS I would change my name first. My chosen name is the shortened version of my birth name anyway. A lot of my documents have my chosen name so it will probably be put as an alias anyway.

While it's annoying to the extreme, I don't think we should be looking at this as a bad thing. Yeah it sucks that they get it before we do, but at least it's a step in the right damn direction.

Also, Australia has government healthcare too.

I bet that makes ultra anti-trans folk quite thrilled, if they do, to know that they're essentially helping to pay for a criminal's SRS. Oh, the irony... XD

This whole discussion and the anti-human rights bent that it has taken sickens me in so many ways.

1. Trans people, especially trans women, are incarcerated at much higher rates than the general population.  This is not because trans people are "bad people"; rather, many trans people are incarcerated for committing "survival crimes" such as sex work and drug dealing, primarily because they have a hard time finding work in the legal economy due to discrimination.

2. Trans people, and again I'm talking primarily about trans women, do not have an easy time in prison, by any means.  Imagine being someone who lives and identifies as a woman, who is feminine and/or appears female, who maybe even has breasts, and being placed in a men's prison.  Not only do these prisoners have to conform to men's dress codes, cut their hair, shower in open facilities with men, etc., but they are easily targeted and victimized by guards and other prisoners.  Sexual assault, rape, harassment all happen regularly.  Sometimes trans prisoners are placed in isolation "for their own safety," but being in isolation is no picnic, either.  Isolation is generally used as a severe form of punishment, so in this way, these prisoners are being punished simply for being transgender. 

3. I'm not going to get into my beliefs about the prison system, but regardless of my personal views, people who are incarcerated are still people.  Whether they committed a serious, violent offense (which, realistically, is the vast minority of prisoners), or a minor drug-related offense, they deserve human rights.  One of those human rights is medical care.  I think that most of us on this forum would agree that transition-related care is medically necessary for many transgender people.  If this is true, then why should we think about this in any other way than, say, if a prisoner with a heart condition needed heart surgery?  If we do think that providing transition-related care is inherently different from heart-related care, then we need to rethink our argument that transition-related care is medically necessary. 

4. Yes, I think it's sucky that most trans people in the United States cannot access transition-related surgeries due to their inordinately high costs.  I think that insurance plans should be required to cover transition-related care.  Moreover, I think that, regardless of insurance coverage, all trans people should be able to access affordable transition-related care.  To that end, I believe that arguing against the treatment of trans people in prison is a step in the WRONG direction.

Perhaps a part of the reason why trans people in prison can get SRS is because perhaps without SRS a transwoman would have to be placed in men's prison. or a transman would have to be in women's prison.  but if they can get SRS, then they can be placed in the correct prison.
Just a theory.

Also, I just want to repost this...

Quote from: Liam K on October 30, 2011, 09:48:42 PM
This whole discussion and the anti-human rights bent that it has taken sickens me in so many ways.

1. Trans people, especially trans women, are incarcerated at much higher rates than the general population.  This is not because trans people are "bad people"; rather, many trans people are incarcerated for committing "survival crimes" such as sex work and drug dealing, primarily because they have a hard time finding work in the legal economy due to discrimination.

2. Trans people, and again I'm talking primarily about trans women, do not have an easy time in prison, by any means.  Imagine being someone who lives and identifies as a woman, who is feminine and/or appears female, who maybe even has breasts, and being placed in a men's prison.  Not only do these prisoners have to conform to men's dress codes, cut their hair, shower in open facilities with men, etc., but they are easily targeted and victimized by guards and other prisoners.  Sexual assault, rape, harassment all happen regularly.  Sometimes trans prisoners are placed in isolation "for their own safety," but being in isolation is no picnic, either.  Isolation is generally used as a severe form of punishment, so in this way, these prisoners are being punished simply for being transgender. 

3. I'm not going to get into my beliefs about the prison system, but regardless of my personal views, people who are incarcerated are still people.  Whether they committed a serious, violent offense (which, realistically, is the vast minority of prisoners), or a minor drug-related offense, they deserve human rights.  One of those human rights is medical care.  I think that most of us on this forum would agree that transition-related care is medically necessary for many transgender people.  If this is true, then why should we think about this in any other way than, say, if a prisoner with a heart condition needed heart surgery?  If we do think that providing transition-related care is inherently different from heart-related care, then we need to rethink our argument that transition-related care is medically necessary. 

4. Yes, I think it's sucky that most trans people in the United States cannot access transition-related surgeries due to their inordinately high costs.  I think that insurance plans should be required to cover transition-related care.  Moreover, I think that, regardless of insurance coverage, all trans people should be able to access affordable transition-related care.  To that end, I believe that arguing against the treatment of trans people in prison is a step in the WRONG direction.

GET OVER IT.

keep wishing to go to prison.

Once it happens you'll want nothing more than to be free again, even if it means you have to tolerate the genitals you were born with.

Free SRS is not worth being an animal in a cage.

ask someone who's lived it

Wait a minute ... you saw this on ... tumblr? lol

Seriously, this reeks of internet crap that is not reality.

ETA

10 seconds and a google search and all I see is a couple inmates tried to get SRS and they were denied ... and a bill to prevent inmates from having any SRS.

Does anyone fact check anymore? Or does everyone take the internet at face value?

Quote from: insideontheoutside on October 31, 2011, 12:46:37 AM
Wait a minute ... you saw this on ... tumblr? lol

Seriously, this reeks of internet crap that is not reality.

ETA

10 seconds and a google search and all I see is a couple inmates tried to get SRS and they were denied ... and a bill to prevent inmates from having any SRS.

Does anyone fact check anymore? Or does everyone take the internet at face value?

It actually doesn't change all that much if it's true or not.  Everyone is still expressing their views in a what-if situation.

Now I got to figure out what crime to commit in Philly that will actually put me in prison.
I want to go to prison so badly now.

How can I tell that you've never really spend any time in jail, much less in prison?  I hated prison, every single bit of it, and I was only there three hours a week and I was getting paid.  Still sucked.  Bad.  Hard.

First there has not been any kind of vote on this.  If you had the American public vote on prisoners, they'd kill them or ignore them - whichever is cheaper.  Prisons are required to maintain any medical treatment that was underway before incarceration.  They maintain it in the cheapest possible manner.  If you were not on hormones before the bust then it gets murky.  And remember here folks, this is the US, so there are in fact 50 separate prison administrations each trying to draw up regulations on this, and a federal one on top of that.

I'm pretty sure you don't want a prison SRS, just like you don't want Sing Sing or Folsom dental work.  It's not like they are going to send you to Montreal or anything.

Because if i had been there before I would obviously know what crime to commit to send myself back?

Gang-banging, trafficking in crack cocaine, kiddieporn, anything involving being told by Chris Hansen to 'have a seat over there', making meth - be sure to do it with a gun, that usually enhances the penalties.  If you could become black, Mexican or join a criminal organization like the Hell's Angels or the mob, or the Crips it would help.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 12:56:48 PM
And you're entitled to your feelings, however close-minded they may be.

The U.S. prison system's cruel standards of operation create more repeat-criminals during incarceration than it rehabilitates. The treatment of trans people in prison is especially heinous. As one transwoman put it "I may have broke the law, but I didn't ever do anything to deserve this."

Think about how some mishap of fate could one day put you in their positions before righteously proclaiming that people in prison deserve what they get.

Only someone who hasn't been around such things can be so arrogant.  The classic strawman defense of -If can't understand because you haven't been there.-  a very flawed viewpoint at best.  I covered this in the other thread as well and do not quite feel like retyping it but god what an arrogant thing to say.  It's like saying one can't relate to anothers emotional pain because they didn't suffer the exact same thing.  It's foolish at best.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 01:18:08 PM
Where did I say that's how things should be?

In fact, I specifically stated in my first post that this can now be used to advance insurance coverage for the average citizen: "If prisons recognize it as medically necessary, then it's medically necessary for me too."

Progress is progress, no matter where it starts. "Ranting" at progress is by definition counterproductive.

It still comes down to the fact we will be PAYING for the insurance out of pocket and they will not be.  So in the long run we still pay more and in a way twice over because not only do we have to cover ours but part of somebody elses.  Ya, don't give me that penny BS either because as we tack more onto systems like this taxes go up not down.  They have to cover the costs on top of all the already poorly funded projects such as the roads we drive on collapsing.  Which also deserve the money more then those inside.

Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?

i know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.

does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?

or how does that work for ftms???

Quote from: Nancy thompson. on November 05, 2011, 10:42:42 PM
Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?

i know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.

does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?

or how does that work for ftms???

They assign you according to the state of your genitalia.

My opinion on prisoners and the justice system is pretty well known, I think. The thought of my going to prison made me straighten the he** out quick. FAST. Super quick. To speak generally, the people who put you in there are probably as bad as you ever were, and more specific experience has helped me conclude that the people watching you are most times infinitely worse.

Quote from: Korlee on October 31, 2011, 10:23:03 AMThe classic strawman defense of -If can't understand because you haven't been there.-  a very flawed viewpoint at best.  I covered this in the other thread as well and do not quite feel like retyping it but god what an arrogant thing to say.

No, no it's really not. Words fail us, they just failed me, again.

the real problem I have with SRS for inmates is:  are they really TS or is the same sex situation with all its pheromones and sex smells just messing with their heads and making them think they are TS when really they are just a bit towards bi/gay/tv and getting fooled by being in a sexy smelly place?
I seem to remember hearing a case of an inmate getting surgery but immediately out tried to taek the prison system to court as 'they should have known I wasn't TS.'

eh... sure it kinda sucks, but I think people in prison have a bit larger of a risk in not having the right bottom parts....

I'd rather have my tax dollars go to possibly prevent the shame and humiliation and all the other horrific things I can imagine a trans person could be subjected to in jail than to their hospital bills ect. afterwards.

Quote from: Nygeel on October 30, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
Simple answer is to go to a bank and rob them of one dollar. Go in, tell the bank teller that you're robbing them and want only singles. Take one dollar from the stack, tell the teller you're unarmed and walk out. Sit out front and wait for the cops.

I think a homeless guy got 15 years for doing just that.

Depending upon the jurisdiction, you might only get jail and not prison for that,
Especially because one could argue that that's theft and not burglary, since there's really no threat without a weapon and if you're not causing fear (Silly yes, but burglary is classified when fear is involved,)

...But anyway...
Now I kinda want to go to prison too >__O;
Why the hell do they get free bottom surgery? God-dammit...
Land of the free? Only when you're in prison >.<;;

Quote from: GentlemanRDP on November 06, 2011, 12:10:06 PM
...But anyway...
Now I kinda want to go to prison too >__O;
Why the hell do they get free bottom surgery? God-dammit...
Land of the free? Only when you're in prison >.<;;

I very much doubt you want to go to prison.

Quote from: Nancy thompson. on November 05, 2011, 10:42:42 PM
Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?

I know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.

does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?

or how does that work for ftms???

I assume that they would go off of whatever your LEGAL sex currently is.  However, whether they go off your the legal sex on your birth certification (harder to change) or the legal sex on your driver's licence (easier to change), I don't know.  That probably would depend on the policy of the institution.

It goes by "genital status" for everyone, regardless of legal documents