First off, I want to qualify this post with the fact that in general I'm not as knowledgeable about the inner working of the trans machine, or the politics of trans.

However, it seems to me that the majority (if not vast majority) of trans people are MTF. Am I right in this regard? Does anyone have any hard evidence that could shed some light on this situation?

I think that if there is a disparity (In any direction.) it would be helpful to understanding our condition.

Again, I don't really want a flame war. Hopefully an insightful conversation can still be achieved online about this potentially controversial subject. 

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 06, 2011, 12:11:35 AM
However, it seems to me that the majority (if not vast majority) of trans people are MTF. Am I right in this regard? Does anyone have any hard evidence that could shed some light on this situation?

I think "vast majority" would be pushing it.

I think statistics say that 1 in 30,000 "men" (MTFs) have SRS and 1 in 100,000 "women" (FTMs) have SRS.

I think it might be because women can be particularly masculine in appearance and not look weird but males can't be feminine?

I don't really know, all I know is that I feel like a female on the inside, and that's all that matters.

The media in the last 50 years has focused far far more on MTFs than FTMs, so it seems like there are more of us because we get more exposure.

I do know that there are more gay cis men than there are cis lesbians, so maybe it's possible there are more MTFs than FTMs?

Quote from: Lily on November 06, 2011, 12:34:06 AM
The media in the last 50 years has focused far far more on MTFs than FTMs, so it seems like there are more of us because we get more exposure.

I do know that there are more gay cis men than there are cis lesbians, so maybe it's possible there are more MTFs than FTMs?

It definitely may a function of media exposure. I think that I could reasonably clock a MTF walking down the street, but most FTM's I know are even more attractive than most men, If they didn't disclose I doubt I would be able to tell with any reliability.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on November 06, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
I think "vast majority" would be pushing it.

I think 'vast majority' would be anything approaching 3 to 1. I certainly wasn't pushing something upwards of ~70%
In politics, a 'vast majority' is something like six points, for perspective.

Quote from: toxicblue on November 06, 2011, 12:16:07 AM
I think statistics say that 1 in 30,000 "men" (MTFs) have SRS and 1 in 100,000 "women" (FTMs) have SRS.

I think it might be because women can be particularly masculine in appearance and not look weird but males can't be feminine?

I don't really know, all I know is that I feel like a female on the inside, and that's all that matters.

Perhaps it's a function of CIS women being able to act 'butch' (Lord knows the butch women in my life can drink me under the table, beat me at arm wrestling and break glasses with a single burp.)

But otherwise 'straight' trans women are relatively restricted in their femininity. (Gay men as well.)

Does anyone know of any organization that would have this info?

Not really sure... if you look, the MTF forums here are actually slightly less active than the FTM forums.

I think MTFs are at least the more normal icon of trans things though, probably because it's seen as either comical or just bad for a ~man~ to do anything feminine. So MTFs are the more controversial half.

Quote from: pretty on November 06, 2011, 01:33:25 AM
Not really sure... if you look, the MTF forums here are actually slightly less active than the FTM forums.

I think MTFs are at least the more normal icon of trans things though, probably because it's seen as either comical or just bad for a ~man~ to do anything feminine. So MTFs are the more controversial half.

That may be true, but that may be simply because the trans men are more chatty (Unlikely right?) or there may be a higher concentration of trans men at this site relative to the general population at large.

Definitely, unfortunately or not, MTF's seem to be the standard-bearers for trans issues in the media. 

over the years I've seen perhaps a hundred newspaper/magazine/telly stories about MTFs for every one I've seen about FtMs. 
To most people including me there is little obvious difference between FtMs and lesbians so they are not newsworthy and don't make for good entertainment on the reality shows.

* To most people including me there is little obvious difference between FtMs and lesbians so they are not newsworthy and don't make for good entertainment on the reality shows. *

Of course that is the situation. Who care to bother looking at what seems to be a lesbian - one that is dyke-looking enough to be noticed in the first place.

Women can wear any sort of guy's cloths and nobody gives a hoot. Even if they have large breasts, still no issue at all. So as lilacwoman says: "It absolutely NOT news worthy..."

The jig is up if such a person wishes to go to the "men's – room", get a male golf member-ship, REALLY wants to start getting down to business. Like name and gender change to male, plus all the rest - REALLY wanting to pass as male fully. Now THAT - is on a different page. I think very few actually manage - or do it. Most have female girl friends anyway... all the trimmings of a lesbian, or?

Axelle

Quote from: toxicblue on November 06, 2011, 12:16:07 AM
I think statistics say that 1 in 30,000 "men" (MTFs) have SRS and 1 in 100,000 "women" (FTMs) have SRS.

If it is the case of people getting SRS over actual number of MTF and FTM then I think that's pretty normal as a lot of FTMs seem to not like the current state of their surgeries, whereas MTF surgeries tend to be more "advanced" shall we say.

If there is a case of their generally being a lot more MTFs over FTM which isn't just due to media exposure of such I think there is probably a perfectly logical reasoning for it. The current theories of the causes of gender dyphoria are due to a hormonal imbalance during time in the womb. Now considering that, it's more likely for a woman to produce more estrogen than testosterone you're more likely to have a baby exposed to more estrogen and less testosterone than vice versa. Of course this is all just psuedo-science based on nothing but assumptions.

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on November 06, 2011, 04:22:13 AM

If there is a case of their generally being a lot more MTFs over FTM which isn't just due to media exposure of such I think there is probably a perfectly logical reasoning for it. The current theories of the causes of gender dyphoria are due to a hormonal imbalance during time in the womb. Now considering that, it's more likely for a woman to produce more estrogen than testosterone you're more likely to have a baby exposed to more estrogen and less testosterone than vice versa. Of course this is all just psuedo-science based on nothing but assumptions.

That's just the way I like my science

According to the Swedish Borad of Social Service 35% of gender changes have been FTM and 65% have been MTF since 1972. Swedish law requires sterilisation, but not SRS prior to acknowledging a gender change.

On the other hand in Denmark, where vaginoplasty is reguired of MTF's, while FTM's are not required to have genital surgery 18 people were acknowledget for FTM change and 6 people were acknowledged for MTF change during 4,5 years.

That is the ratio of MTF/FTM varies by a factor six among the two countries probably because of different laws and differences in threatment access!

In my country the old statistics are that 1 in 10.000 genetic men and 1 in 30.000 genetic women is transsexual. I cannot confirm this, but new estimates here is that it might actually be 1 in 2000 genetic men and 1 in 4000 genetic women.

In real life I find the ratio of transmen and transwomen to be about 50/50. I am involved in maintaining and moderating a website and internet community for children and young adults with GID where against expectations the majority of members is FtM.

FTM's usually come out early compared to MTF's.

Quote from: Tippe on November 06, 2011, 10:51:58 AM
FTM's usually come out early compared to MTF's.

That might play with the numbers. I know that for MTFs at least, that late transitioners tend to be gay, while young transitioners are more likely to be straight.

Does anyone know about the age/orientation ratio? Or even the overall orientation distribution?

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 06, 2011, 11:59:46 AM
That might play with the numbers. I know that for MTFs at least, that late transitioners tend to be gay, while young transitioners are more likely to be straight.

Does anyone know about the age/orientation ratio? Or even the overall orientation distribution?

I remember reading about it a while back. The publication "Comparing adult and adolescent transsexuals: An MMPI-2 and MMPI-A study" by A. De Vries et al gave the following results:

250 adult transsexuals were questioned on their sexual preference:
59 MtF's identified as homosexual (According to Blanchard et al. terminology: attraction according their genetic sex)
116 MtF's identified as non-homosexual
58 FtM's identified as homosexual
17 FtM's identified as non-homosexual
The mean age of the MtF's was 38, the mean age of the FtM's was 33

All adolescents (83, 43 MtF's and 40 FtM's, mean age 16) identified as homosexual.

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 06, 2011, 01:10:42 PM
I remember reading about it a while back. The publication "Comparing adult and adolescent transsexuals: An MMPI-2 and MMPI-A study" by A. De Vries et al gave the following results:

250 adult transsexuals were questioned on their sexual preference:
59 MtF's identified as homosexual (According to Blanchard et al. terminology: attraction according their genetic sex)
116 MtF's identified as non-homosexual
58 FtM's identified as homosexual
17 FtM's identified as non-homosexual
The mean age of the MtF's was 38, the mean age of the FtM's was 33

All adolescents (83, 43 MtF's and 40 FtM's, mean age 16) identified as homosexual.

That's really interesting, do you think that those ratios hold true on this forum?

I think another factor is that it's easier to be socially accepted as a transman than a transwoman.

In our society any woman can just wear guy clothes and nobody will care, so some might be happy with just doing that.
On the other hand, if a man dresses in women's clothes, he's automatically a freak ... and as a result of that it's pretty much an "all or nothing" situation. There isn't really a middle ground for MtF (as far as social acceptance goes).

I can't say that, but it seems to fit what I see in real life. Not a single adolescent trans I know is what we would call homosexual, and the percentages given for adults are recognizable as well.

This was however not the focus of the study. According to Blanchard there is a difference between hetero and lesbian transwomen. She stated that the subgroup of lesbian transwomen is often not transsexual but autogynephyllic (I don't really have the time now to look up the exact publications in which she claims this, I am certain it is referenced in the above mentioned publication by De Vries). This publication concluded that contrary to Blanchards theory, there is no difference in psychological functioning found between transsexuals of different sexual preference.
Another conclusion seems to be self evident: Adolescents have a better mental health than adult FtM's, which in turn score better than adult MtF's.

Quote from: Lynn on November 06, 2011, 01:22:25 PM
I think another factor is that it's easier to be socially accepted as a transman than a transwoman.

It was given as an explanation in the paper:

QuoteIn line with several other studies, our adult FtMs functioned psychologically better than adult MtFs. One of the reasons might be that FtMs, in comparison to MtFs, pass more easily in the opposite gender role. Postoperative psychopathology of FtMs is shown to be associated with difficulties experienced with passing as the new gender. Likewise, the absence of sex differences in psychological functioning in our adolescent sample might be associated with their more convincing appearance, as they have not yet developed secondary sex characteristics. [...] However, it also suggests that it is easier to make a gender role change around the start of puberty than in adulthood. Young transsexuals might be less harmed by the consequences of their gender dysphoria, such as stigmatization. Moreover, the prospect of puberty suppression may give them confidence that they are being helped, which may be positively related to their psychological well-being.
In conclusion, in accordance with the literature this study shows that MtFs seem to need more clinical attention than FtMs, as the former functioned psychologically worse than the latter. contrary to expectations, we found no differences in psychological functioning between homosexual and non-homosexual transsexuals. Therefore, subdividing transsexuals according to sexual orientation may be clinically less useful than has often been assumed. Most importantly clinicians should be aware that many adolescents function psychologically better than most adult transsexuals. This might affect clinical case management for this age group and suggests that early medical intervention is recommendable, which was offered to the adolescents participating in this study.