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Ronald Reagan

Started by Princess of Hearts, September 17, 2011, 05:22:54 PM

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Princess of Hearts

There is a huge Aircraft carrier named after Reagan.   I think that it cost about $1,000,000,000 to build and it cost $1,000,000 per day to run!

I saw a programme about this ship a while ago.  It was rather interesting the film crew were allowed on board and the spoke to everyone from the captain to the lowliest crew member.   Everyone seemed really nice.  We viewers got to see the pilots being briefed and the jets taking off and landing and the amount of training and discipline the flightdeck crew had to go through.
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SandraJane

Like he's the "only" one?

Let's see...Lincoln, Washington, both Roosevelt's, Truman, Bush 41, JFK (non Nuclear), Ike, even Gerald R. Ford (ooouuu...wouldn't wanna be stationed on that one, fall down a ladder :laugh:).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/names-presidents.htm
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Shana A

Quote from: mimpi on September 26, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
Is that taught in the USA?

Unfortunately, a majority of Americans don't read books, so if it can't be taught using a 10 second sound byte on Faux News, they probably aren't aware of it...

Z (an American who has read Marx, etc)
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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SandraJane

Quote from: Zythyra on September 26, 2011, 07:45:33 PM
Unfortunately, a majority of Americans don't read books, so if it can't be taught using a 10 second sound byte on Faux News, they probably aren't aware of it...

Z (an American who has read Marx, etc)

That's one thing my Brother-In-Law and I can agree on...ooooouuu don't like "Faux"News!
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grrl1nside

This thread is so loaded. I won't have a complete run of verbal diarrhea hopefully. I was never a fan of Reagan in the least or the Republicans but in some respects what Reagan did was a product of what we can now increasingly see as a dysfunctional international trade and monetary system that basically gave him the opportunity. 2 things spring to my mind and aren't exactly without controversy...

(1) The military industrial complex or what I consider a distinctively American version of Military Keynesianism has a long long history in the US (both Republican and Democrat) and well before Reagan. In a way, American military spending by the right in the US was one of the few places that they could get away with focusing on the state on research and development, propping up American corps through exempt subsidies that would never have been accepted under GATT if it had been done outside the rubric of national defence and even better from Reagan's perspective was all consistent with his ideology which he could portray as pro-market and against big government yet in a way nothing could be further from the truth in my opinion (yet still be consistent with breaking strikers for instance e.g. Air Traffic controllers).

(2) Reagan from turning US from greatest creditor to biggest debtor... This one is smoking... It is true on one side but basically the US breaking its commitments through the Nixon shocks in 1971 without the rest of the world being willing to challenge its lead currency status (damn near everything pegged to the American dollar) which started the ball rolling because to avoid a liquidity crisis the complete breaking with the gold standard allowed the US to basically print money or else the global economy would have tightened a great deal more than what was certainly on the table and American spending was critical at this time. This opening that Nixon created was then exploited by Reagan to not only allow for running large deficits without the international monetary order batting an eyelid and also allowed his administration to force multiple currency revaluations on a number of countries (e.g. Japan being one of the best cases with pressure to increase the value of the yen) meant that the US was effectively forcing economic adjustment on other economies even though it appeared that the American dollar relative to gold appeared somewhat consistent. Great optical illusion.

So, the seeds of Reagans policies were present elsewhere and earlier but maybe not in such a stark form and told with such clear ideological fervour. The ultimate consequences are coming to roost. Deregulated financial markets, oversized debts, distrust in the ability of the US to sidestep the international trading system through defence spending, and questions about the ability of the US to maintain its status as a lead currency forever...
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SandraJane

Quote from: grrl1nside on September 26, 2011, 08:59:21 PM

So, the seeds of Reagans policies were present elsewhere and earlier but maybe not in such a stark form and told with such clear ideological fervour. The ultimate consequences are coming to roost. Deregulated financial markets, oversized debts, distrust in the ability of the US to sidestep the international trading system through defence spending, and questions about the ability of the US to maintain its status as a lead currency forever...

Clap, Clap! But we can't blame Reagan from nixing the Glass-Steagall Act, that a Republican Congress accomplished under Clinton.

As to "Military-Industrial Complex", I was surprised when I discovered where that phrase came from...

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present


- President Dwight D. Eisenhower, January 17, 1961

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Princess of Hearts

A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at?
Ronald Reagan


All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.
Ronald Reagan


Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement.
Ronald Reagan

I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at gunpoint if necessary.
Ronald Reagan


:laugh:
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tekla

Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement.
Ronald Reagan

I always liked that one.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Princess of Hearts

You know this thread is distracting attention from other parts of the forum.    It has also ran its course so I am locking it.

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SandraJane

Ha Ha! You're just going to stir things up somewhere else by starting another contentious thread Princess! And besides...you don't have the ability to lock the thread :laugh: Good try though.
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tscarrie42

Quote from: Amazon D on September 17, 2011, 06:27:54 PM

yes Jimmy Carter was the last good and honest president. But today many people think that a president needs to be evil and dishonest to get things done.

Yes i helped Obama get elected http://my.democrats.org/page/community/post/danielleclarke/CZ9k



Jimmy Carter may have been honest, but he was FAR FAR from being a good POTUS, he was the worst POTUS in American History and Barack Obama is coming in a close second.

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tscarrie42

great Reagan quote " They are spending like drunken sailors, but that is unfair to the drunken sailors because at least they are spending their own money!"
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Julie Marie

Quote from: tscarrie42 on November 07, 2011, 10:07:43 PM
Jimmy Carter may have been honest, but he was FAR FAR from being a good POTUS, he was the worst POTUS in American History and Barack Obama is coming in a close second.

Okay, you've stated an opinion.  But what are the facts you have to back that up?  Just curious.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Amazon D

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 08, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
Okay, you've stated an opinion.  But what are the facts you have to back that up?  Just curious.

Ditto because we all know reagan got elected due to the iran hostages release which was a scam that made Carter look bad and the drug store truck driver glad.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Jamie D

Quote from: Amazon D on September 18, 2011, 06:25:33 PM
He's a drug store truck drivin' man. He's the head of the Ku Klux Klan When summer comes rollin' around. We'll be lucky to get out of town ... He don't like resistance I know. And he said it last night on a big TV show. He's ...

The Byrds!  You are a hippie.

Remember this one ...

"Oh mommy
I ain't no commie
I'm just doing what I can to live the good all American way
It says right there in the constitution
It's really A-ok to have a revolution
When the leaders that you choose
Really don't fit the shoes"

That was "Oh Mommy, I ain't no Commie" by Brewer and Shipley (the flip side to the "One Toke over the Line" single 45rpm - not that any of the children here would know what a 45 was)

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Jamie D

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 08, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
Okay, you've stated an opinion.  But what are the facts you have to back that up?  Just curious.

Do you remember the "Misery Index"?  I do.

Carter = "malaise" "one term" "historic blowout election"

The people spoke in 1980 with their ballots.
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Jamie D

Quote from: Amazon D on November 08, 2011, 05:45:07 PM
Ditto because we all know reagan got elected due to the iran hostages release which was a scam that made Carter look bad and the drug store truck driver glad.

As I recall, the hostages in Iran were released on the day of Reagan's first inauguration - about two and a half months after the election.
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tekla

As I recall, the hostages in Iran were released on the day of Reagan's first inauguration - about two and a half months after the election.
Yeah, they didn't trust our system anymore than the Republican's did when they traded - as they said they would never do - arms for hostages.  They waited until that day, because only once Reagan became President could he authorize the release of the weapons.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Jamie D on December 04, 2011, 12:14:28 AM
Do you remember the "Misery Index"?  I do.

Carter = "malaise" "one term" "historic blowout election"

The people spoke in 1980 with their ballots.

Again, lines 1 & 2 are opinion, whether yours or someone else.  The third is about the masses, who are often sheep.  Most of them could never articulate why they voted for this candidate or that.  They just repeat what they hear.  I just was curious why YOU believe what you do about Carter and Obama.  That's all.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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tekla

Carter = "malaise" "one term" "historic blowout election

Speaking strictly as a historian - albeit not a political one, but one who's PhD is in 20th Century American history - I always thought (going back to the night he gave it) that that "Malaise" speach was just about the most powerful bit of plain, speaking truth that any President ever dished out.  And really, just using that term shows you're a tool being fed propaganda, the official and formal title of the speech was "The Crisis of Confidence."  He never used the word 'malaise' once in it.

The heart - the thesis if you will - of that address was the growing dependence on foreign energy (but hey, that was a non-issue wasn't it?  we sure nipped that problem in the bud with the 'Pubs that followed eh what?) but there was a much deeper message too, the one that got the 'malaise' tag tossed on to it.  And they did that, pick that silly word - a word not used in the speech - because the commercial powers which were just getting used to being able to control  hated - HATED - what he really said which was: the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our Nation.  He correctly labeled it a threat to the very foundations of the Republic, and I think he was not only right, but prescient.  And like most people who have to be prophets, he's hated in his own land, and in his own time.

The erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of America.
And look at what happened (and it's largely a creation of the right) to the political discourse when Rush et. all. came on board.  Lowest common demonotor does not even begin to cover the willfull ignorgance and pure hate that flooded the American political system in the time since Carter warned about it.

there is a growing disrespect for government and for churches and for schools, the news media, and other institutions. This is not a message of happiness or reassurance, but it is the truth and it is a warning.
But we never took it that way - or the media did not sell it that way, and all of that has come to pass.

We are at a turning point in our history. There are two paths to choose. One is a path I've warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others. That path would be one of constant conflict between narrow interests ending in chaos and immobility. It is a certain route to failure.
"Self-interest"?  Wasn't this followed by the 'Greed is Good' Reagan years?  It's a certain road to Occupy for sure.  We are on that road, and even some of the blinder members can see the failure laying ahead.  People now accept a casual downward mobility for most and an intensified social stratification that would have been unimaginable in the Carter years.

Oh, and the speech - far from what you think in your revisionism - was awesomely well received, it was the firing of the Cabinet a few weeks later that started the tailspin, but don't let the facts get in the way of your political options.


And, don't believe me, read the speech and see for yourself how far off the mark he was.
http://www2.volstate.edu/geades/finaldocs/1970s&beyond/malaise.htm
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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