The ones that leave me scratching my head and serriously intriqued are the straight butch women.

I knew some 'lesbian(s)' that insisted on STP, and binding ---  Axelle

I agee, if they are going as far as using STP's and binding, they are acting like transmen.

Quote from: cynthialee on November 08, 2011, 10:05:01 AM
The ones that leave me scratching my head and serriously intriqued are the straight butch women.

'cause gender expression and sexual orientation are totes linked.

Quote from: Jayr on November 08, 2011, 11:32:49 AM
I hate threads like these.
Why can't everyone just act like they want without being questioned.
Theirs no one way to act gay, lesbian, like a man or a woman.
Just do whatever the hell you want.

And I agree with Nygeel.

This this this.

Kia Ora,

  Why can't everyone just act like they want without being questioned ?

Why do you think that is ?

Metta Zenda

I think the whole 'wearing male clothes' thing transcends lesbians, and could go for pretty much anyone. Why does anyone wear any type of clothes? There's a myriad of answers anyone could give.

the answer here is the same as I answered in the Mtf one,
because we are all diffrence, only thing I see as diffrence is the steryotypes we have,
for lesbians it often more okay to be maculine, and for straight guys as well, where on the other hands its kinda accepted to be gay, and femenine where if your straight its harder, but it has really nothing to do with gender or sexualety.

I honestly turn alittle tired of those topic, for me it seams alittle ignorant, and sorry to say it but I somehow feel its not needed,
and just made because the Mtf got these topics.

my opinion is pretty much the same as jayr

Quote from: Andy8715 on November 08, 2011, 09:40:18 AM
LOL no.  Where are you getting this info? How do you account for all the very femme lesbians if being lesbian is a masculine trait?  Testosterone is not what makes women be lesbians.

There are some parts of the brain that are different size in people attracted to women and people attracted to man and that brain areas respond to sexual hormones in the womb. I think I even studied that in university.

http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/readings/homofinger/homo_finger.html

I'ts even in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

If you don't believe this is true. What is your theory? What makes woman be lesbians?
My answer to your question: Very femme lesbians are not so masculine as butch lesbians. As simple as that. On one hand testosterone might affect more directly some part of the brain and not others (I guess), and on the other hand there are also environmental influences. If you are biologically determined to have a male identity or to be attracted to women in a very strong way, there will be no way to change that, but more ambiguous people can be more easily influenced by experience. At least that makes sense to me.

These are my assumptions but I believe in tha scientific research that says that sexual hormones determine sexual orientation, masculine or femenine behaviour and gender identity.

beyondlabels, i really hope you're using sarcasm when you say "its even in wikipedia" 

Quote from: Jayr on November 08, 2011, 11:32:49 AM
I hate threads like these.
Why can't everyone just act like they want without being questioned.
Theirs no one way to act gay, lesbian, like a man or a woman.
Just do whatever the hell you want.

And I agree with Nygeel.

Of course you can do whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that's has to do with sexual hormones before birth, and due to that fact we can describe some behaviours as TIPICALLY male as they are associated with testosterone in the womb.
The fact that some things have an explanation is not against personal freedom. It doesn't even limit the spectrum of human gender of sexual orientation. In fact I think it explains the variety that we see and makes it more rightful to the eyes of most conservative people. You know time ago homosexuality was treated as a mental illnes and psychollogist tried to cure it. Now that the medical comunity thinks is biologically determined in our brian and we can't change it is much more widely respected.

Quote from: Sam- on November 08, 2011, 09:02:37 PM
beyondlabels, i really hope you're using sarcasm when you say "its even in wikipedia" 

Why? Wikipedia says:

"Fetal hormones may be seen as the primary determiner of adult sexual orientation, or a co-factor with genes and/or environmental and social conditions."
"In a 1991 study, Simon LeVay demonstrated that a tiny clump of neurons of the anterior hypothalamus—which is believed to control sexual behavior and linked to prenatal hormones—was on average more than twice the size in heterosexual men when contrasted to homosexual men."
"Girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (an autosomal recessive condition which results in high androgen levels during fetal development) have more masculinized sex role identities and are more likely to have a homosexual sexual orientation as adults than controls"

I am really sorry If I am bothering someone or If I am wrong. Everyone can be wrong. But I was told all this long time ago in university and I have always believed it's true. I don't think we should consider science as a religion. Science is always changing to theories that explain reality better, so If there's another theory I really be greatful that you share it with me.

Quote from: Andy8715 on November 08, 2011, 09:40:18 AM
LOL no.  Where are you getting this info? How do you account for all the very femme lesbians if being lesbian is a masculine trait?  Testosterone is not what makes women be lesbians.

Yeah, I have to agree with Andy here.
Most of my friends who are lesbians are actually more on the femme side, too

I said the Wikipedia thing because it is a peer edited site and thus should in no way be used as an educational/scientific resource, you should see some of the things people write into that site, it's hilarious. Don't worry I'm just poking fun, not looking to fight or anything.

Quote from: Sam- on November 09, 2011, 09:45:22 AM
I said the Wikipedia thing because it is a peer edited site and thus should in no way be used as an educational/scientific resource, you should see some of the things people write into that site, it's hilarious. Don't worry I'm just poking fun, not looking to fight or anything.

It's also cited. I don't see why you couldn't use it as a resource as long as you check the citations.

I don't think the Wikipedia comment was even directed at this certain post, but it was just to state that you shouldn't believe everything that's on it.

And about the topic.. I'm with Jayr

oh! of course, I agree wikipedia is not the most reliable site in the world. I said "even in wikipedia" meaning that information is so popular that's even in a site that's not very scientific and specific about gender. But you are right.

Quote from: Sam- on November 09, 2011, 09:45:22 AM
I said the Wikipedia thing because it is a peer edited site and thus should in no way be used as an educational/scientific resource, you should see some of the things people write into that site, it's hilarious. Don't worry I'm just poking fun, not looking to fight or anything.

So hey, um, I don't want to stand up and defend wikipedia, really (I watch Colbert, I've been on 4chan, I'm not stupid), but peer review is the gold standard for most professions and areas of expertise. In my experience, wikipedia is more accurate and up to date than Encyclopedia Britannica. Most topics are policed pretty heavily.

Again, though, I don't want to put myself out there as championing the integrity of that source. Just defending the idea of a site that is "peer edited."

That's true, and I suppose all the things I knów to be true are on it.

But I'm still not allowed to use it as a source in a paper for school haha.

Why do I dress like a guy sometimes?

Because I'm queer!  And being queer means you get to do stuff like that, and people look at you funny, and you give them a smug smirk because you know you challenge their assumptions and make them uncomfortable.

A lot of people here have some excellent points.

Actually I have also been wondering about this question for a while. I have a few friends who identify as butch lesbians, having a lot of friends who are gay/lesbian/bi, their sexual orientation doesn't bother me one bit. But it does baffle me sometimes when butch girls insist on other people treating them as male. They get upset when e.g. at a wedding the photographer says "Let's have a photo with all the pretty girls together!", I observe this kind of awkward situation, but they seem to have no intention to transition or identify as ftm.