is there any reason not to straight up ask the therapist over email/online contact how long they would need to see you before they could provide the letter, before you even make your first appointment with them? be a good way to feel out who knew what the letter was, etc, as well.

Quote from: spacerace on November 11, 2011, 03:36:21 PM
is there any reason not to straight up ask the therapist over email/online contact how long they would need to see you before they could provide the letter, before you even make your first appointment with them? be a good way to feel out who knew what the letter was, etc, as well.

I would consider that a huge 'no.' If I were a therapist, I think that I would less inclined to give a letter from someone who is asking me outright for one. To me, It just smacks of semi-extortion.

When set up my appointment with my therapist, I asked if she adhered to WPATH standards, and let her know that I was a FtM who wanted to take the first steps toward transition. I left it at that. I talked to her on Thursday, and she set me up with an appointment on Monday, so I guess I made a good impression.

I wouldn't phrase it in the 'I am seeing you to get hormones' sort of way, but more like you would like to begin taking steps toward transition and toward learning more about yourself.

Quote from: Ayden on November 11, 2011, 05:18:56 PM
When set up my appointment with my therapist, I asked if she adhered to WPATH standards, and let her know that I was a FtM who wanted to take the first steps toward transition. I left it at that. I talked to her on Thursday, and she set me up with an appointment on Monday, so I guess I made a good impression.

I wouldn't phrase it in the 'I am seeing you to get hormones' sort of way, but more like you would like to begin taking steps toward transition and toward learning more about yourself.

Yea, of course you need to tell them that when your setting up your initial sessions. If you don't they'll just ask you anyway.

But for me, I would consider asking about hormones to forward. Although it might just be me, I wouldn't chance it either way. I agree with above, if you ask if they adhere to WPATH you have some indication of when your going to get your body pumped full off hormones.

Well I did exactly that.  I emailed him before I ever saw him and I told him that I want to see a therapist for the sole reason of getting a letter.  And I asked him how long he wanted to see me before he would write the letter. 

I just wanted to be upfront about it.  because I'm not trying to fool anyway, that is the truth, that is the ONLY reason why I would see a therapist.  I don't really think I have issues to work out.

I don't think it sounds like extortion.  I mean, I'm paying him and all I want him to do is write a letter confirming for the world that I am trans.  And if he sees me for a few months and decides that I am not trans, then I guess he won't write the letter. 

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 11, 2011, 04:22:29 PM
I would consider that a huge 'no.' If I were a therapist, I think that I would be less inclined to give a letter from someone who is asking me outright for one. To me, It just smacks of semi-extortion.

Well, it's not really extortion at all. you are paying them to provide a service for you...that service may be to work some stuff out, or it may be to get a letter. I don't see any problem with both people knowing what you after exactly being an issue. Especially in his case, as he wants to get in and get out. Not saying that upfront would almost be more deceptive, no?

Quote from: JohnAlex on November 11, 2011, 10:30:47 PM
Well I did exactly that.  I emailed him before I ever saw him and I told him that I want to see a therapist for the sole reason of getting a letter.  And I asked him how long he wanted to see me before he would write the letter. 

I just wanted to be upfront about it.  because I'm not trying to fool anyway, that is the truth, that is the ONLY reason why I would see a therapist.  I don't really think I have issues to work out.

I don't think it sounds like extortion.  I mean, I'm paying him and all I want him to do is write a letter confirming for the world that I am trans.  And if he sees me for a few months and decides that I am not trans, then I guess he won't write the letter. 

Good luck.

Quote from: spacerace on November 11, 2011, 10:46:48 PM
Well, it's not really extortion at all. you are paying them to provide a service for you...that service may be to work some stuff out, or it may be to get a letter. I don't see any problem with both people knowing what you after exactly being an issue. Especially in his case, as he wants to get in and get out. Not saying that upfront would almost be more deceptive, no?

That is, from the point of view of the therapist. To the therapist, you're coming to sessions to resolve your feeling of dysphoria. Their service is to help you work out your transition plan (if any), and not to provide you access to medication. Consider when you go to the doctor, you don't ask for specific health care treatment, you present a problem to the physician and you guys work out the best solution of you. What do you think would happen if you contacted a doctor asking for adderall or opiates to treat some problem they have no knowledge about? They would think that you're trying to con them into something that you won't, which might have serious repercussions for them. Therapists are professionals just like doctors, and I think that both of those groups would consider that at least a little extortionary.

Now as for the deceptiveness of disguising what you really want, I wouldn't consider it an issue. If you come to the therapist presenting as a transsexual who wants to transition, they would assume that you would want access to these drugs. I would consider it an open secret really. But the point of the matter is that asking directly for access to these drugs is usurping the discretion of the professional, and I think that they would interpret this as both an affront to their authority as professionals and as a possible threat to their livelihood. (From malpractice suits.)

Most of the time Ethics can't be successfully interpreted in Economic terms in the real world. You'll just behave like an ->-bleeped-<- 

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 11, 2011, 11:27:40 PM

Most of the time Ethics can't be successfully interpreted in Economic terms in the real world. You'll just behave like an ->-bleeped-<- 

Going to therapist to get the letter to get T in the first place is part of the required dance. To me, it seems like he wants the letter, not to "work out" if he's trans or not.

Asking upfront saves everyone time, sorry you think it makes me an ->-bleeped-<-, I'm not, I'm just straight forward.

Quote from: spacerace on November 11, 2011, 11:36:52 PM
Going to therapist to get the letter to get T in the first place is part of the required dance. To me, it seems like he wants the letter, not to "work out" if he's trans or not.

Asking upfront saves everyone time, sorry you think it makes me an ->-bleeped-<-, I'm not, I'm just straight forward.

Of course the majority of us only go to therapists to get the letter, if not, wht pratt on about yourself for an hour to someone in a tweed vest who's silently judging you? (Again, I'm speaking from the perspective of the therapist. They do have to diagnose you first before they'll give you any letter of any sort.)

Having, the dancing is required for good reason, it exists to weed out people so that those who don't really want to Tango instead of Salsa for the rest of their lives don't make a mistake and blame other people on it.

I doubt whether it would save anyone's time, most therapists adhere to WPATH. And so in either case the earliest your going to be getting hormones is ~3 months or so. (Besides, it's not as though you can take the letter and run unless your non-op)

I never said that being forward made you or anyone else an ->-bleeped-<-, just that interpreting ethics from an economical perspective often leads people to act like ->-bleeped-<-s. I never conjectured as to whether or not you or anyone has/does do that. However, most people who describe themselves as 'straight forward' do leave an unsavory taste in my mouth, although that's probably a result of how deferential and laid back I am.

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 11, 2011, 11:57:52 PM
Of course the majority of us only go to therapists to get the letter, if not, wht pratt on about yourself for an hour to someone in a tweed vest who's silently judging you? (Again, I'm speaking from the perspective of the therapist. They do have to diagnose you first before they'll give you any letter of any sort.)

Having, the dancing is required for good reason, it exists to weed out people so that those who don't really want to Tango instead of Salsa for the rest of their lives don't make a mistake and blame other people on it.

I doubt whether it would save anyone's time, most therapists adhere to WPATH. And so in either case the earliest your going to be getting hormones is ~3 months or so. (Besides, it's not as though you can take the letter and run unless your non-op)

I never said that being forward made you or anyone else an ->-bleeped-<-, just that interpreting ethics from an economical perspective often leads people to act like ->-bleeped-<-s. I never conjectured as to whether or not you or anyone has/does do that. However, most people who describe themselves as 'straight forward' do leave an unsavory taste in my mouth, although that's probably a result of how deferential and laid back I am.

I would rather be straight forward and open and easy-going than any number of negative alternatives So I guess sorry I leave a bad taste in your mouth? I don't see how that is relevant, and I certainly didn't mean to offend you. so, let's start over. Hi, I'm spacerace, nice to meet you. By straight forward, I only mean, you will always know where you stand with me and I won't tip toe around issues or make you guess my intentions.

Back on topic. Point is - Bottom line, an initial therapy session is easily 150 dollars....each. If you are needing to shop around to find someone will work with you to get a letter and you want 3 months not 6 months, better to ask him upfront, prior to giving him the 150 and wasting his time and yours, how long he usually takes to feel comfortable recommending you and writing the letter.

The alternative is that you don't ask, spend the 150 dollars, have him say 6 months, or worse, a year - only have to have that be unacceptable, and have to spend time and another 150 dollars to go see someone else with an initial session.

In my experience, I was able to find a really awesome therapist through the local college. (They have to deal with so much freaky ->-bleeped-<- that I'm probably normal to them anyway.)

Besides from that, and returning to the original topic, great places to find good therapists include:Local LGBT center, Colleges, and other trans people you meet at the center.

Unless you live in some crazy metropolitan area (and would have a ton of information online) hay are only so many qualified gender therapists in your area. If you ask around, you can get a good feel for their style, and how long it usually takes to get your letter. I would generally prefer this method, but then again I'm have a lot of social anxiety relating to my anxiety so perhaps that's just me.

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 11, 2011, 11:57:52 PM
I doubt whether it would save anyone's time, most therapists adhere to WPATH. And so in either case the earliest your going to be getting hormones is ~3 months or so. (Besides, it's not as though you can take the letter and run unless your non-op)

Good point about surgery letters, but I've heard that a few top surgeons don't require letters under certain circumstances. In addition, I know several people IRL who got a hormone letter (and in one case a surgery letter as well) after very few visits, even one or two. WPATH does not require three months, so some clients get their hormone letters pretty fast.

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 11, 2011, 11:57:52 PM
I doubt whether it would save anyone's time, most therapists adhere to WPATH. And so in either case the earliest your going to be getting hormones is ~3 months or so. (Besides, it's not as though you can take the letter and run unless your non-op)

Not true, a number of people got there letter in the first or second appointment. 

Quote from: LordKAT on November 12, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
Not true, a number of people got there letter in the first or second appointment.

Have you read the WPATH standards?

It strongly recommends a waiting period for all people to get HRT, except in the case of those individuals who are already presenting in their correct gender identity. So these people may have simply 'checked' into the therapist to get their letters, but for the majority of us who are not at least part time when we seek counseling we have to wait it out.

Also, the therapist might have simply not cared about WPATH or is following a different standard of care.

I'm not suggesting that the waiting period is mandatory for all people, or even mandatory at all, but that the majority of counselors follow the standards and that under their prescription a majority of people will have to wait.

Quote from: Arch on November 12, 2011, 02:03:31 AM
WPATH does not require three months, so some clients get their hormone letters pretty fast.

this ^^.

Very strongly suggested but not mandated. It's always up to the discretion of the counselor.

I have read the standards and the revised standards and a great many things. The answer remains the same.

Quote from: LordKAT on November 12, 2011, 08:48:06 PM
I have read the standards and the revised standards and a great many things. The answer remains the same.

Yes, I was agreeing with you that it is certainly a distinct possibility lol.

Any update on the therapist in question?

Personally, I would highly doubt a therapist that would just write you a letter for a body-altering, life-changing prescription on the first visit ... or the second visit ...

I think therapists certainly have a responsibility to their clients to (1) get to the bottom of root causes through accepted psychological diagnosis (2) evaluate you from a non-judgmental perspective, and (3) suggest a treatment plan. All the while they should fully take an interest in assisting you to get (mentally) healthy.

If you're going in expecting the treatment plan from the get-go, and getting it, that's a little alarming to me. It's not like a prescription of Xanax (although don't get me started on that ...) you are seeking to change your life (irrevocably) and the therapist just seems like he's doing his job by trying to evaluate you further and then offer your treatment plan.

The thing about you having to come out to all your family is a little dodgy - unless you're under 18. If you're over 18, you're legal, and that shouldn't be a requirement. 

I also wanted to add that just because you're paying a therapist doesn't just "buy" you whatever you want. They're in the medical field and do have to adhere to professional standards. Any medical professional that can be be "bought" is not someone who's very trustworthy or concerned about the client's health if you ask me.

Lastly, what child knows the trans diagnosis? I mean, I didn't find out that existed until I was mid teens as well. But if you had experiences you could relate to the therapist, that would back up the diagnosis. Children do not just go, "I'm trans!" until they're older and they discover that it's an actual "thing" and usually when they do, that's when the light bulb goes on in their minds like, "ohhh that explains it". A really good therapist experienced with gender issues already knows this and doesn't expect the person to be self-aware that they were trans from day 1. But in relating your experiences honestly to the therapist, they can certainly see patterns forming and be able to make an evaluation.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on November 13, 2011, 01:43:30 AM

Lastly, what child knows the trans diagnosis? I mean, I didn't find out that existed until I was mid teens as well. But if you had experiences you could relate to the therapist, that would back up the diagnosis. Children do not just go, "I'm trans!" until they're older and they discover that it's an actual "thing" and usually when they do, that's when the light bulb goes on in their minds like, "ohhh that explains it". A really good therapist experienced with gender issues already knows this and doesn't expect the person to be self-aware that they were trans from day 1. But in relating your experiences honestly to the therapist, they can certainly see patterns forming and be able to make an evaluation.

This ^^

I doubted for a long time my validity as a trans woman because I didn't ever say the phrase 'I'm a transexual' out lout to myself until I was ~17 or so. However, when I started recounting the facts of my childhood, and remembering some things that I had forgotten, it was plain as day that I exhibited symptoms of GID for almost as long as I can remember.

If you have some relevant memories to throw out, that would give the counselor more evidence to base their diagnosis on. It couldn't hurt in either case.

QuoteChildren do not just go, "I'm trans!" until they're older and they discover that it's an actual "thing" and usually when they do, that's when the light bulb goes on in their minds like, "ohhh that explains it".

Well, they might not call themselves trans...but some call themselves boys and girls before they know anything about trans. I suspect that you were talking about children's awareness of treatment possibilities, yes?