Quote from: Layn on November 13, 2011, 05:05:15 AM
me too. specially when i open my mouth or i'm just generally looking a bit like crap, i just want to ask everyone "come on, you must be seeing it?? admit it, damn it!". I know it's a weird thing to freak out about, but it's weird how everyones just acting as normal. there are absolutely no weird reactions, even when there should be! I mean, not even that uberreligious guy who believes homosexuals are posessed by demons and were abused as children acts different, and he knows i'm transsexual (at least yesterday a friend told me something he said about me. now i finally know how he stands in regard to me).
it'd be really nice to know if i'm really passing or everyones just really that good at not showing what they're thinking.

I'd care to venture that social anxiety/paranoia kill more trans women that closeted straight guys haha.

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 04:55:37 AM
I think that is a function of social deference, I don't think that most people consider it polite to randomly walk up and make conversation with women (especially men.) Somehow for men, speaking to 'strange' women = trying to steal someone's girlfriend/trying to cheat on your girlfriend.

Besides, have you ever tried making a pass on a beautiful girl? Most people, myself included, need a little liquid courage. 

hehe I guess I dont haev high enough self esteem to think of myself as that "beautiful girl">.<
i didnt really think of that though, tahts an interesting point.

Quote from: Layn on November 13, 2011, 05:05:15 AM
me too. specially when i open my mouth or i'm just generally looking a bit like crap, i just want to ask everyone "come on, you must be seeing it?? admit it, damn it!". I know it's a weird thing to freak out about, but it's weird how everyones just acting as normal. there are absolutely no weird reactions, even when there should be! I mean, not even that uberreligious guy who believes homosexuals are posessed by demons and were abused as children acts different, and he knows i'm transsexual (at least yesterday a friend told me something he said about me. now i finally know how he stands in regard to me).
it'd be really nice to know if i'm really passing or everyones just really that good at not showing what they're thinking.

this right here is exactly what I'm getting at
its been nervewrecking.

I feel like theres no real way to know if your passing without asking people directly. but of course thats not gonna happen haha.

When i was living as male I had a giant mohawk. and I got stared at all the time. blatantly too. people would secretly try to take pictures. laugh, ask me about it to the point of annoyance....I figured I was gonna get the same reactions so Id know if I was passing or not. but that doesnt seem to be the case.

cause I know I cant pass that well already. theres just no way.

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on November 13, 2011, 05:20:58 AM
cause I know I cant pass that well already. theres just no way.

well, i have found that we pass better than we think. If my friends don't think my voice is too bad, and they insist they can't see any signs of beard or beardshadow at all among other things, then someone who doesn't even know a thing about me, will never even come close to the thought if i might be transsexual. Heck, considering the way some guys have been acting, i'd say at least those definitely don't suspect a thing. I'm sure it's the same with you.
still, that's what i say now. when i'm actually around people i can't help but wonder what people i interact with think anyway.

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on November 13, 2011, 05:20:58 AM
hehe I guess I dont haev high enough self esteem to think of myself as that "beautiful girl">.<
i didnt really think of that though, tahts an interesting point.

cause I know I cant pass that well already. theres just no way.

With all due respect madame, you're completely wrong in this regard.

I happen to think that your very attractive, and barring your voice/mannerisms, I would peg you at 100% pass rate.

IMHO, of course 

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 05:44:04 AM

With all due respect madame, you're completely wrong in this regard.

I happen to think that your very attractive, and barring your voice/mannerisms, I would peg you at 100% pass rate.

IMHO, of course 

*blush* goodness, I just can not wipe this smile off my face. :3

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on November 13, 2011, 05:53:57 AM
*blush* goodness, I just can not wipe this smile off my face. :3

See! how can you not pass when projecting such an aura of confidence? 

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on November 12, 2011, 07:17:13 AMso the question is how do you really get affirmation that your passing or not? i mean is this typical for pass or no pass?

lol In the "polite" Bible belt South "the test" is EASY -> fix yer hair *no makeup* and, while *dressing male androgynous only* . . . see if they call you "Ma'am" or "Sir" !

Cannot not tell you how much fun I have with this but obviously . . .
. . . ALL depends on which *marker* accents You the best!

( ps: lol oh yea! dumb kids calling / tugging "daddy" is dead give-away everytime! )

The general rule is, if you get passed, you pass. As time goes by it is less nerve wracking.

Quote from: EmmaM on November 13, 2011, 12:37:12 PM
The general rule is, if you get passed, you pass. As time goes by it is less nerve wracking.

Is it that anxiety always present?

Anxiety will vary with the individual. Just like many don't give a rat's you know what if they do or don't pass. "It's their problem not mine" attitude is great if you have that sort of personality.

With the level of self confidence I have gained this past year or so my anxiety has greatly decreased. I am almost at the point of not really caring. A good part of the hesitation I have is due to living in Hee-Haw Redneckville WV. My wife worries far too much over my personal safety, which I cannot blame her for. Better to err on the side of caution and have some level of anxiety then to take unnecessary chances and dealing with the consequences.

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 02:41:17 PM
Is it that anxiety always present?

No. IF you don't pass and you still live as a woman, eventually things normalize with you as the "different" one. If you can't handle being different, then you gotta assess some things about yourself (this response has no weight for the OP, who is adorable)

Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 02:41:17 PM
Is it that anxiety always present?

If you do pass as female, eventually you just kind of forget about it.

I started assuming I was doing ok when people smiled at me and didn't seem uncomfortable for the most part.  And even now, years later, some people might read me as trans or wonder, but they don't say anything, its just a look on their face or something that tips it off.  I work with the public, so I see and talk to plenty of people, locals and tourists alike.

Today at bus I met "one of us" (maybe she live somewhere near because it is not first time, or is here big concentration  )
At first quick look it is just a woman about 35-40 years maybe little too young dressed for her age, but at second look there is some discrepancies like untidy hands, male skin texture at face (she have short curly hairs pulled back, face shape was ok) and broad shoulders, so after detail inspection I can 95% sure say she is "male" (I think without any hormones)
But she was confident, and no one had any reaction, no staring, laughing, just like one of other common women
So if you don't attract focus people just don't care.

I tend to think that the real not-passing rate is maybe 10 to 20 times or so more than the passing rate you perceive, due to people not wanting to stare, or be impolite, or that they simply don't care even though you don't pass.

So if it seems like you don't pass 1% of the time, you probably don't pass another extra few or 10 percent of the time.
If it seems like you don't pass 10% of the time, you probably in fact don't pass at all...
If it seems like you don't pass 0.01% of the time (say only one person out of roughly 10,000 people you've walked by on the streets seem to look at you curiously), then even your real non-passing rate would be negligible!

That's what I guess anyway. Could be completely wrong though!

And about confidence, ...

Quote from: Medusa on November 14, 2011, 04:20:01 AM
But she was confident,

... I find it extremely important. I noticed another transsexual woman in my area (whose passability seems to vary a lot from day to day) these few months, and when I smiled at her, she nervously looked away. I thought, okay, that sooo gives it away...

Quote from: apple pie on November 14, 2011, 09:49:51 AM
I tend to think that the real not-passing rate is maybe 10 to 20 times or so more than the passing rate you perceive, due to people not wanting to stare, or be impolite, or that they simply don't care even though you don't pass.

So if it seems like you don't pass 1% of the time, you probably don't pass another extra few or 10 percent of the time.
If it seems like you don't pass 10% of the time, you probably in fact don't pass at all...
If it seems like you don't pass 0.01% of the time (say only one person out of roughly 10,000 people you've walked by on the streets seem to look at you curiously), then even your real non-passing rate would be negligible!

That's what I guess anyway. Could be completely wrong though!

When I used to see ts's as a boy...I used to think, "Boy that woman is not easy on the eyes",  "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!" "wtf is wrong with that man?" or "she's pretty, but I know she's born male". I pay attention to every single person in my line of sight.

I see them in SF sometimes, if they are within a certain range. I don't stare. Unless it's so obvious what they are. Everyone looks at everyone else though, so they could be looking at your pumpkin orange hair or piercings rather than your gender.

I've recently gotten into wearing big big hair, Catherine Denevue makeup, and my style hasn't quite caught up. Men check me out, women look at the style. Don't fret about this stuff...people aren't covering their eyes when they see you like I've seen with some transpeople. People could be looking at you for a million reasons besides being trans...and don't try to get inside their heads.

You don't belong inside other peoples heads.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 14, 2011, 02:58:39 PM
People could be looking at you for a million reasons besides being trans

+1

there are lots and lots and lots of natural women who come across "->-bleeped-<-"  in fact one of my husband's good friends from work is a young girl who has no chest and a a sort of guyish face and even a weird neck area thing that almost could look adams appley.  She's got the most typical Staten Island girl voice though,  like Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny.  She was born a female biologically.

She's got the same kind of look as you as far as style goes, and piercings,  and you are much prettier than she is.    And it's funny because she is the most adorable girl I know.  I used to buy clothes for her all the time at the Salvation Army because she could fit into the designer clothes that were too small for me.  She loved vintage dresses.

She's a girl because she's one of those people who is "such a girl."  And she's got boyfriends etc.   But if you took her picture and put it up here I bet a lot of people would give her pointers about how she could improve to pass better.  One of her downsides is she can't grow her hair long no matter what she does.   

Everyone has something that isn't perfect.  It is sad to me as an older woman to see so many young girls sucked into the idea that you have to pass a certain way.

I think it boils down to more than passing.  I think it wanders into the territory of not respecting yourself the way you are and feeling inferior.  And those kinds of feelings, if you have them,  will not go away if you pass and are beautiful and come across perfectly.

All they will do is shift to another new area of your life.   When you constantly worry about what others think of you,  it hurts your identity,  whether your gender is matched up or not.

You are beautiful and cute, and I think you remind me of this girl I mentioned above.  She's adorable.  So are you.  Be happy. 

The cashier at kmart kept staring at me tonight. She was a young girl about 18.

It was probably nothing, as I have a tendency to stare deadly at people if we make eye contact. So something as simple as that gets misinterpreted and they stare back.

Quote from: mixie on November 14, 2011, 03:29:46 PM
there are lots and lots and lots of natural women who come across "->-bleeped-<-"  in fact one of my husband's good friends from work is a young girl who has no chest and a a sort of guyish face and even a weird neck area thing that almost could look adams appley.  She's got the most typical Staten Island girl voice though,  like Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny.  She was born a female biologically.

Heck, consider Ann Coulter.  Rumors of her being MTF just refuse to die even though there is plenty of documented evidence that she really is cis.  I think the things that people key into when flagging her as trans are her prominent adam's apple, somewhat deep voice, sharp jaw, and her rather masculine level of verbal aggression when speaking publicly.  My point being, anyone who claims to have infallible "trans-dar" is wrong. Anyone transperson who thinks he/she always passes is wrong. Any cisperson who thinks he/she could never be mistaken for being trans is wrong. Anyone can be clocked or misgendered and anyone can unknowingly misgender someone else.

Plus, you can never really know what someone else is thinking about you...if they are even thinking of you at all.  That person who refused to meet your stare may just not be comfortable making eye contact with strangers. That person who just smiled at you in passing could be inwardly greatly shocked at the "obvious transperson", yet trying to act polite.  That person who just glared at you may have been thinking about their bad day at the office and not have even noticed you standing there. That person who just rudely shoved past you in the store may have actually pegged you as a "normal" cis and was simply in a hurry and not watching their manners.  You just don't know.  People's thoughts and actions often don't match.

My standard of success, when it comes to passing, is being able to go about my business without being assaulted, openly mocked/disrespected, or discriminated against. If people are clocking me but continue to at least treat me with basic respect and human dignity, that's good enough for me. But then, I'm not really "out" yet, so maybe my feelings on the matter will change when actually faced with the reality of RLE.  I recognize that possibility.

If you are usually being accepted and respected, whether you are actually passing or not, consider yourself lucky and treat yourself to a smile.  It's really the best any of us (trans or cis) can reasonably expect in an imperfect world.