Can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.  But in the discontent, in the real first stages, it's the opposition that gets it.  Sometimes as a form of sacrifice, as Mario Salvio once said: ""...But we're a bunch of raw materials that don't mean to be - have any process upon us. Don't mean to be made into any product! Don't mean - Don't mean to end up being bought by some clients of the University, be they the government, be they industry, be they organized labor, be they anyone! We're human beings!...There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Sproul Hall Steps, December 2, 1964.  And we're fast getting to that initial point of throwing bodies on the gears - and the lines of riot cops - to slow it down and stop it.  Myself, when they get to: by any means necessary, I'll start paying attention and join.

While the 1% may have 50% of the wealth, they still each only get one vote.  Sure, they can sway voters with their high priced ads but that only lasts so long if they don't share the pie.  Hungry people can't focus on slick ads because they are too busy looking for food.

Once a majority of the voters understand they really can make a difference with their vote, and once they start to educate themselves rather than believing the spin, then real change can come.  Politicians only want to get elected.  If they believe supporting the uber-rich will result in being voted out of office, they won't do it.  Politicians always follow the votes.  They have a nose for that.  It's why they are politicians.

Maybe the Occupy Movement will become the Vote-Em-Out Movement.

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 16, 2011, 09:32:54 AM
While the 1% may have 50% of the wealth, they still each only get one vote.  Sure, they can sway voters with their high priced ads but that only lasts so long if they don't share the pie.  Hungry people can't focus on slick ads because they are too busy looking for food.

Once a majority of the voters understand they really can make a difference with their vote, and once they start to educate themselves rather than believing the spin, then real change can come.  Politicians only want to get elected.  If they believe supporting the uber-rich will result in being voted out of office, they won't do it.  Politicians always follow the votes.  They have a nose for that.  It's why they are politicians.

Maybe the Occupy Movement will become the Vote-Em-Out Movement.

Well we need our own party because even when we have voted them out in the past they had others in line to take their place.. www.the99declaration.org

There is a very high degree of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss' going around.

Has a Harvard Professor Mapped Out the Next Step for Occupy Wall Street?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/has-a-harvard-professor-mapped-out-the-next-step-for-occupy-wall-street/247561/


MORE WRITTEN HERE BUT BELOW IS COPIED FOR YOU TO BRIEF::

So how do we begin a popular movement that might end with states petitioning for a convention? Lessig calls for mock conventions to happen all across the land: assemblies of regular people to think of these, and other, problems, and come up with solutions that might work. Not only would these conventions come up with a spectrum of solutions which could be evaluated and selected from, but they'd build national support for the idea that a convention like this could work.

It sounds unlikely to happen. But this is where Occupy Wall Street comes in. Properly leveraging its support, it could generate enough energy to do what Lessig, while writing this book, couldn't quite picture. In fact, the original call for Occupy Wall Street, from Adbusters, called on president Obama to "ordain a Presidential Commission tasked with ending the influence money has over our representatives in Washington." Already, "The 99 Percent Declaration  www.the99declaration.org " is calling for "a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia" to address the influence of money in politics and other issues.

Properly presented, the strategies and aims of Lessig's book could make it the handbook the protesters have been looking for -- and provide a pathway for them to ride out the winter ahead.

I'm thinking power needs to be decentralized. Instead of one president, there should be a council that is always an odd number. Divide the nation into its natural geographical parts and each section elects one council member.

Congress wouldn't be able to know that their one party jerk will rubberstamp their nonsense.

Otherwise, a serious restructuring of the present mess might do okay.

Obviously, I'm okay with excessive changes.   

Quote from: Rebis on November 16, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
Obviously, I'm okay with excessive changes.   

Yeah, but there's a whole bunch of people out there who get their shorts in a bind when someone tries to change something.  Like the world is going to end.

The reality is a country this size has to change slowly because there isn't a structure in place than can step up and keep things rolling.  And that need for slow change allows the status quo time to regroup and create a new model.  On the surface it will look different but under that it will be the same old thing. 

Protesters Have the Right to Protest ... and to Resist Unlawful Arrest
Posted on November 13, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog
Top Military Commander and Courts Support Right to Protest
In response to comments from those supporting the police crackdowns on peaceful protesters exercising their constitutional rights but violating local ordinances (see comments here), reader Purplemuse writes:

The Constitution supersedes local ordinances that are being used to OBSTRUCT 1st Amendment Rights. The camping ITSELF is in order to MAKE A STATEMENT – a First Amendment Right. Protesters are not camping because it is fun to expose yourself to the elements and hardship and you want to roast wienies and marshmallows and drink beer while swapping ghost stories.

Would you listen to Colin Powell, retired four-star general in the United States Army, Powell also served as National Security Advisor (1987–1989), as Commander of the U.S. Army Forces Command (1989) and as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1989–1993) when he says, "It isn't enough just to scream at the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations. We need our political system to start reflecting this anger back into, 'How do we fix it? How do we get the economy going again?'" He also states that the Occupy Wall Street Protests are "As American as Apple Pie."

Does he go on to qualify his statement by saying, "as long as they obey local (misdemeanor) ordinances. No, he does not. He actually goes on to say that he "gets" it.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/protesters-have-the-right-to-protest.html

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You know I thought of that.  Then I thought that a huge part of what's actually going down and how it's going down is being done by bypassing the traditional media outlets and sharing through the web.  But just to make sure I wrote to TruthDig and asked them, because I was interested in making sure that the real important stuff - the stuff you cut - about the convergence of several different things namely:
- discontent that affects nearly all social classes,
- widespread feelings of entrapment and despair,
- unfulfilled expectations,
- a unified solidarity in opposition to a tiny power elite,
- a refusal by scholars and thinkers to continue to defend the actions of the ruling class,
- an inability of government to respond to the basic needs of citizens,
- a steady loss of will within the power elite itself and defections from the inner circle,
- a crippling isolation that leaves the power elite without any allies or outside support
- and, finally, a financial crisis
are the real harbinger of approaching radical social and cultural change.

It's important, because forward is forearmed.  Make no mistake, if the ->-bleeped-<- really hits the fan a lot of people reading this will not live through it.

Anyway TruthDig told me that as long as no money was involved (as was the case in Freeper crap, they were stealing material and using it to solicit donations) and the intent was to spread the message then that's exactly what were doing and how we're getting it done.  So I did it.

I mean part of the reason that this is going down now is that the internet has made it a lot harder to control the flow of information to the citizenry, and as a result it's become a lot harder to hide the crap.  Really Bill Clinton was the first victim of it.  It was the net that would not let up on the story and eventually it got through.  The mainstream media - bought and paid for - would never have said anything, just like they covered up (by not reporting or even hinting) that Jack Kennedy was ->-bleeped-<-ing everything with a skirt and was so horny that the crack of dawn wasn't safe around him.  He got the pass, even though among the babes he hosed were a) a mistress of a leading Mafia boss, and b) an agent of the East German Secret Police, and c) a famous sex queen just a few weeks before her 'apperent - yet never quite proven -suicide.'

But OK

Sex Queen? Is that position still available?

I would think that passing along the message is more important than controlling the sharing of the message, except in the case where money is made. People deserve to be paid for their work.

Whatever happens this year, there has got to be a break in how things have been done. Civil disobedience has made a comeback.

Quote from: tekla on November 17, 2011, 12:31:24 AM
Anyway TruthDig told me that as long as no money was involved (as was the case in Freeper crap, they were stealing material and using it to solicit donations) and the intent was to spread the message then that's exactly what were doing and how we're getting it done.  So I did it.

Tekla,

Since you got permission from TruthDig, you could repost the full article if you wish, with quoted permission from TruthDig. The article posting guidelines are in place to protect all of us from legal actions.

Z

When the Mob Squad moved in to "clean up" Zuchotti Park, I thought there would be some minor repercussions.  But when they closed the park I thought, "Uh oh."

Now things have escalated and the protesters are pissed.  I think we've seen the end of peaceable demonstrations.  Welcome in a return to the Viet Nam days.

I was reading an article on CBS News about the recent incidents.  They spoke to a bond trader who said he empathized with the demonstrators.  Then he said, "They have a point in a lot of ways. "The fact of the matter is, there is a schism between the rich and the poor and it's getting wider."

He doesn't seem to get it.  This is not about the schism between the rich and the poor, it's about a schism that has been created between the rich and the next guy down the ladder, who used to be right behind but is now way behind.

Quote from: SandraJane on November 16, 2011, 11:26:27 PM

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Yikes you edited out the references to case law that allowed people to fight back if they are being stopped from protesting..

People please go to the site and see the case laws .. which will blow your mind.. .. it did mine..

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 17, 2011, 09:33:22 AM
When the Mob Squad moved in to "clean up" Zuchotti Park, I thought there would be some minor repercussions.  But when they closed the park I thought, "Uh oh."

Now things have escalated and the protesters are pissed.  I think we've seen the end of peaceable demonstrations.  Welcome in a return to the Viet Nam days.

I was reading an article on CBS News about the recent incidents.  They spoke to a bond trader who said he empathized with the demonstrators.  Then he said, "They have a point in a lot of ways. "The fact of the matter is, there is a schism between the rich and the poor and it's getting wider."

He doesn't seem to get it.  This is not about the schism between the rich and the poor, it's about a schism that has been created between the rich and the next guy down the ladder, who used to be right behind but is now way behind.

Today, they are having protests in all five boroughs of the city. There will be a mass march later today. So far the atmosphere has been peaceful for the most part. If anything, the breakup has emboldened the protesters.

This is a very well written response to the person now called "that 53% guy" (pictured below)


The note the guy is holding up is self explanatory.  Some other guy, who defines himself as a liberal, wrote a letter in response to the picture and the guy in the photo.  He titled it "Open Letter To That 53% Guy".  Anyone wanting to really understand what has happened to this country over the past 30 years should read this.  It's long but worth reading.  Some excerpts:

For a time I worked at two hotels at once, but I don't think I ever worked 60 hours in a week, and certainly not 70.  I think I maxed out at 56.  And that wasn't something I could sustain for long, not while going to school.  The problem was that I never got much sleep, and sleep deprivation would take its toll.  I can't imagine putting in 70 hours in a week while going to college at the same time.  That's impressive.

I understand your pride in what you've accomplished, but I want to ask you something.

Do you really want the bar set this high?  Do you really want to live in a society where just getting by requires a person to hold down two jobs and work 60 to 70 hours a week?  Is that your idea of the American Dream?

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working two jobs and 60 to 70 hours a week?  Do you think you can?  Because, let me tell you, kid, that's not going to be as easy when you're 50 as it was when you were 20.

When I read this, it struck me that's now the new standard Wall Street, the banks, the corporations and many Republicans are trying to set.  "Work your ass off for us, make us rich, and we'll give you a hearty handshake and a pat on the back, but don't expect anything else."

Read it: "Open Letter To That 53% Guy"

It's worth it.

I'm sure mister 53% hates unions too.  The trouble with the Founding Fathers notions of 'enlightened self-interest' is that many people strive to keep from being enlightened (look at all the attacks from the right wing on schools and teachers) and have failed to realize what is in their self-interest.

He would be praised by some, particularly the right, but ask the family values crowd what this guy's family would look like with a totally absent dad.  Here's a guy who if he was raising children would never see them.  He would not have the time to be their Little League coach, to participate in their schooling or go to PTA meetings.  He doesn't have the time to take them camping on the weekends, or even take them to church.  He has no time to participate in community activities that make where he lives a better place.  If where he lived used a volunteer fire department (as many places do) then you'll just have to get used to a lot of buildings burning to the ground because he doesn't have the time to answer the call.

Do I have to say that undoubtedly several times a month he's driving and while he's behind the wheel he's so tired that he might as well be drunk?

Ask where in that kind of week does he cross the line and it begins to affect his judgement on the job?  When does he start to miss things he should have caught, or begin to make errors in judgement that a person with proper rest would not make?

Any of the real students in here can look at that and know that he's not getting the maximum amount of education out of his classes because he flat-out does not have enough time to put into them.

And while he seems quite proud of himself, the winner of a race to the bottom is not winning very much at all.

Personally I don't believe he worked 60-70 hours for 8 straight years while attending college.  If you put yourself on a 4-year-to-graduate program, there isn't a lot of time left after eating and sleeping.  And even less if you allow yourself some time to decompress.  Even cutting his school load in half, he'd have little time to do anything else with that work schedule.  I've worked that kind of schedule, 10 hours a day, 7 days a week.  After a couple of months, I was a zombie.  And I wasn't even going to school.  And yeah, my spouse & kids complained they never saw me.

But there's another problem.  He says he's a former marine.  I thought if you served your time for this country they helped pay your college.  Why would he have to work 60-70 hours a week just to put himself through college?  Or did he refuse the financial assistance?

The author calls him a kid.  Understandably so.  With age comes wisdom and this guy has a lot to learn. 

Speaking of age and wisdom...
Frances Goldin: 87-Year-Old Protester and Proud of It
She tried but couldn't get herself arrested on Occupy Wall Street's Day of Action

Among the hordes of Occupy Wall Street protesters, Frances Goldin stands out: the 87-year-old literary agent and activist has a tuft of purple hair and carries a sign that reads, "I'm 87 and mad as hell."

She may not look like the typical Zuccotti Park demonstrator, but she believes in the mission to close the income equality gap and to promote social justice. For decades, Goldin has demonstrated and stood for the rights of the disenfranchised.

"I've been arrested nine times for civil disobedience; I want to be arrested 12 times," Goldin told NBC New York. "And I was sure I'd be arrested today, but the cops were determined because of the bad publicity for them, to not arrest an 87-year-old woman."

Quote from: gennee on November 17, 2011, 02:17:24 PM

Today, they are having protests in all five boroughs of the city. There will be a mass march later today. So far the atmosphere has been peaceful for the most part. If anything, the breakup has emboldened the protesters.

That's what I expected. The people in the streets are serious. There are probably hundreds of thousands who agree with them. This movement has only one way to move - forward. There is just too much wrong on so many levels with the current system.

Look at all the pictures from the protests and ask yourself which group came ready for a riot?