In NY Post

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/war_of_wood_she_men_zzjXpY7SuehoyuZm8uwZRP

Without dwelving into the things Bono actualy said(Which I for the record don't agree with): Isn't it funny that when a male says such things as Bono said, it is considered as Strongly misogynistic", but when a female says similar things but about males, it is considered "funny things" or "tongue in cheack" said by "a strong woman".

Quote
In a blog post, Ira rails against Bono for saying that ->-bleeped-<- is "a birth defect, like a cleft palate," and that "being male and having breasts is about the worst thing I could imagine."
Ira also attacked Chaz for saying, "I never understood women before . . . but I had a tolerance for women that I don't have now . . . There is something in testosterone that makes talking and gossiping really grating."

Scratches head. The title of the story (War of H'wood she-men) was the only thing in there I found offensive.
Can understand how some people might be put off by the "tolerance for women" wording, but it seems blown out of proportion to me.

Well that article title is absolutely horrid, isn't it?  Although, I'm glad some media is at least presenting a dissenting voice from someone else in our community towards Bono's bull->-bleeped-<-.  Bono's got problems, and I don't think he's a bad guy, necessarily, I just really think he isn't together enough to be an activist at this point.  It is deep-seated misogyny, and that can happen when you've bad female role-models, or hell, if you're just bitter about being raised female.  The point is though, if you're saying things like that testosterone allows you less patience for women and their talking and gossiping, you've not yet dealt with some serious internal issues and you don't need to be spreading that kind of hateful dialogue to the media as if it's truth.  Not the PR we need, and Chaz Bono doesn't speak for me either.

I do like what was said. I just hate the title.

So much fail.
She-men? Come on.
Ira, who ADMITTED to undergoing hormonal treatment? Remins me of a woman who, after I informed her of my transness, exclaimed "wow, it takes a lot to admit that!"
so messed up.

people suck.

Though I don't agree with everything that Chaz says or how he feels about ->-bleeped-<-. I'm sure that there are some FtMs out there who do feel that he presents them very well. I think that the important thing to remember is that it takes a lot more than one person to represent an entire community. FtMs are just like any other people out there, we can't be classified by one word, one person, or one set of feelings. Regardless, I do support Chaz and I am glad that he'd out to the media because he is helping the community (And myself) gain more acceptance and understanding.

Truthfully, I didn't even know the other person was an FtM, you learn something new every day.

I like how you can only leave comments there through Facebook.  Um, NO.

Well, call me a misogynistic a$$ because since I starte T I also find gossipy yakking people annoying, more annoying than before.  I don't say anything publicly, I tune it out.  Chaz lacks a filter.  Or maybe he thinks he needs to say things, explain things, to help 'educate' but he's off base.

I don't hate Chaz.  Chaz does not speak for all trans guys.  He does not speak for me. He does, however, put ONE FACE to transsexualism.


Jay

I don't know,  Chaz just needs to make sure he's clear when he's talking about his personal reactions to hormones as opposed to making a general statement.


I mean it could well be that Chaz never liked sitting and chatting and now has the excuse not to, so he's running with it.   Or it could be that he always had little patience for women.  Tons of women I know don't like hanging out with other women because they think they gossip and bitch about every little thing.  It's not misogynistic to say so.

Chaz's problem is that he's taken on this "spokesperson role"  so he needs to treat it with more dignity.  While I disagree a tad with Stephen I think it's about time someone told Chaz that it's not ALL ABOUT YOU!!!   

One of the main problems I always see within alternative communities is that whoever is the most popular or in the public eye is usually the one who of course gets the most public attention. And anything that person says or does is highly scrutinized and the public also uses that person as an example of the entire community. Without getting into a argument with anyone about how much "good" the LGBT movement does, it's reasons like this - that the most vocal are often the poorest examples of "average" - is why I never have and never want to be involved with "the community". I just want to quietly live my life, how I want to live it and I don't need to belong to a minority movement to make that happen. Some do, some don't. I'm just one of the ones who don't.

And lets face it, a lot more people know about "being trans" than they used to simply because of celebrity transsexuals and hot tv shows - however, what kind of picture does that paint for the average trans person in the eyes of someone who's just finding out about it? The person who is just being introduced to it, is being introduced to sensationalism. I really don't believe that making people aware in this way is of benefit to the community at large.

I was in the grocery line the other day and there was the National Enquirer with Chaz's photo and some headline about 4 years to live. It so happened that I chose the line with the longest delay once again and ended up standing there for about 10 minutes while 2 people in front of me had some sort of issues with gift cards and checks. Anyway, I'm casually overhearing conversations from the two people behind me, who were looking at the tabloid. One said, "That's just sick", while the other chimed in and said, "I don't even want to see that sort of thing. That's their business but it shouldn't be in the news." Their convo continued touching on topics such as, "that sort of thing goes against nature" (coming from the 1st speaker) to, "yeah but why would anyone want to do that to themselves?" (coming from the second speaker.

The majority of people out there do not accept trans. Hell they really don't even accept gay yet. So to me, public figures in the spotlight are not "educating" they're turning even more people off to the idea. And while we can read an article such as this and formulate thoughtful opinions on it, most everyone else is still going along thinking it's "sick" and "goes against nature" no matter what is said in the article.

I have a lot less tolerance for quite a few things that I never liked in the first place. Slow drivers who aren't in the right lane. Oblivious grocery shoppers who leave their freaking carts right in the middle of the aisle instead of pulling over to the side. People who want to blather about things I'm not interested in. In my experience, a lot of that kind of chatter comes from women. I supposed this explains why I can't watch Sex and the City. All that inane droning about shoes and dating drives me out of my tree.

I do still have issues with women, but I'm not a misogynist just because I'm less tolerant of "girl talk" than I used to be. On the other hand, Bono seems to make his comments in an explicitly sexist way, as if he's trying to distance himself from women as a sex--and maybe put them down a little. I've seen other trans guys do this, possibly as a way to feel more masculine. Only time will tell whether Bono will continue to do it. He might be quite embarrassed about it in a couple of years.

One thing I don't like about Bono is that he often seems to generalize his personal experiences and seems to apply them to others. He comes across as a kind of sexist ass, but he's not unusually articulate, so some of his comments might simply be phrased poorly--or they might have been taken out of context. I remember that when he was on Letterman, he made sure everyone knew that he was talking only about his own experiences. I'm pretty sure I didn't dream that up. Is it possible that the latest comments have been taken out of that context, so they seem to be more generalized than they really are?

The only thing I know about Chaz is that he came out of Cher. So the only thing that bothers me about him is that he still doesn't pass, even with the facial hair. That's not his fault, but my mom and grandma keep using him as an example of how "you always can tell."


I just realized Warren Beatty and Ned Beatty aren't the same person. I kept thinking about Deliverance.

Quote from: Sharky on November 19, 2011, 08:44:16 PMThe only thing I know about Chaz is that he came out of Cher. So the only thing that bothers me about him is that he still doesn't pass, even with the facial hair. That's not his fault, but my mom and grandma keep using him as an example of how "you always can tell."

Yet I do suspect that if Chaz looked exactly like that and was a cisguy, no one would be looking at him and saying, "doesn't he totally look like he used to be a woman?"

I just wish he would get himself in shape...call me mean....but come on!

I've asked myself if i didn't know already would I think the same, and I think I still would, unless chaz was younger. There is something that still comes off as youthful/feminine that a 40 something year old wouldn't have. Sure some people have baby faces but it just doesn't look to me like he has had normal T levels for 43 years.

Quote from: Lee11 on November 19, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
I just wish he would get himself in shape...call me mean....but come on!

That is incredibly ->-bleeped-<-ed up.

Its strange. This thread started with an article calling out a person with cissexist and misogynistic points and has turned into being cissexist and body shaming. Kudos.

I don't see why it's ->-bleeped-<-ed up. His own choices is what made him so badly out of shape. I gained a lot of fat last year, I went from a healthy muscular to obesity. I didn't wake up one day and say I want to be obese. But, I chose it everytime I shoved my unhealthy diet in my mouth and everytime I sat on my ass instead of exercising. I don't see how its different then saying you want to see an addict get clean.

You don't know about his health. There are people with disorders that make weight loss next to impossible. There are fat people with extreme eating disorders. There are thin people who eat horribly.

Why is it that fat people are the only ones shamed?

It sucks how all sects of people "need" a PR. No one can properly represent everyone's views, so it will always be futile. I'm gonna keep it short and not ramble, cuz I'm tired and not thinkin straight. (erased 3 long paragraphs of idiotic trite just now lol)