Nice link lol.

Well, you have to give conspiracist theorists credit for one thing: giving us a good laugh or two.

Happy Girl is the first British conspiracy theorist I have heard of, I thought we all knew that no government could organise a children's tea party let alone some vast inter-linked foil of mystery.

Also, adding to my disproving the 'people are sheep' idea using examples from school life; today an eight year old boy poohed himself just to prove me wrong.

He told me he needed the loo (as he does every day) I told him he could hold on (as I do every day) but instead of holding on, he grunted and strained in order that he would crap his pants - and was proud of himself. And I got 23 of the buggers to keep an eye on.

Kia Ora,

Conspiracy theories are a way of giving ordinary people a narrative with which to question what they see around them. They make ones thoughts 'think', and for some this means thinking outside the square of ones neatly 'conditioned' comfort zone...

Happy Girl, regardless of the negative comments and the ones that are meant to ridicule you, you have achieved your goal, you have planted a seed and even if many dismiss the theory, they can't help but 'think' about it...

And do I believe the moon landing was a fraud ? I don't know and I don't care-it's all in the mind anyway...



"So they say!"

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Zenda on November 25, 2011, 03:19:49 PM
Kia Ora,

Conspiracy theories are a way of giving ordinary people a narrative with which to question what they see around them. They make ones thoughts 'think', and for some this means thinking outside the square of ones neatly 'conditioned' comfort zone...

So does a decently written history or novel and without that earnest, offputting element of irrationality that comes with a conspiracy theory.

Indeed a novel about a fake moonlanding would be fascinating, could really intrigue and interest.

Quote from: Pica Pica on November 25, 2011, 04:36:44 PM
So does a decently written history or novel and without that earnest, offputting element of irrationality that comes with a conspiracy theory.

Indeed a novel about a fake moonlanding would be fascinating, could really intrigue and interest.

Kia Ora Pica Pica,

Whichever way one looks at it, it's all an illusion anyway !

Metta Zenda

It is interesting to note that if you put forward a position and argument that may  get you classified as a 'conspiracy theorist'.   People instead of trying to logically undermine your argument start making ad-hominem attacks upon you.   They say 'so do you also believe that Diana was murdered and that Hitler didn't die but fled to South America?'   'Do you think that the government is trying to microwave your brain, do you wear a tin-foil hat?'    People who resort to these tactics and things like 'jeez there must be a full-moon the wing-nuts, and loony-tunes, sure are noisy tonight,'  they have lost the argument before it even starts.

The ->-bleeped-<- community is well know for its near-religious devotion to medicine and science.   The community looks not to 'Jaysus', sorry, Jesus as their saviour but Lord Science.  Many of us think 'one day science will find a way to give me a fully functioning womb...invent a pill that will entire feminise my body and make me indistinguishable from genetic women even to doctors, but until that glorious day arrives as it surely will.  I must never question Lord Science, I must believe in its dogmas, I must venerate it's achievements, and never, ever question science's rationale of 'if it can be done it should be done'.   That sort of thinking gave us the atomic bomb, thalidomide and germ warfare, to name just three wondrous gifts from science.

->-bleeped-<-:   Do not question Lord Science!

HG: But the evidence against the moon landings is substantial and compelling, and NO they have not been debunked.

->-bleeped-<-:  Silence blasphemer!    Your questions offend Lord Science.   If you question science we will never get our wombs and those 100% feminisation pills.

HG:  But...

->-bleeped-<-:  Stone the blasphemer, stone her I say!!

I'll debunk one, the six feet of lead. If that much sheilding were required to pass through the radiation belts, then the meteorites passed around every science class, and readily available online and at museum gift shops would give us all tumors in our fingers. Except Picas' pupil, who would probably end up with ass cancer.

Quote from: Zenda on November 25, 2011, 04:47:38 PM
Kia Ora Pica Pica,

Whichever way one looks at it, it's all an illusion anyway !

Metta Zenda

construction - possibly
communication - certainly
Illusion - really?

I'll agree that history is a constructed narrative, that it is completely impossible to recreate what has been, and that fiction is a personal response to life, an attempt to describe life at it is felt, but both this things try to communicate but whether they are illusions, I doubt it because an illusion is fully clear to the illusionist and unclear to the audience and that is not how fiction or history communicate.

As for the 'our lord science' thing, I'm not personally after anything from science, and my objection came from knowledge of human organising groups, and the fact that a conspiracy would have to be perpetrated by an uber-organising group, I reckon all conspiracies organised by committee have probably been found out.

Also, if one is theorising about conspiracies, wouldn't it be fitting to be called a conspiracy theorist?

Quote from: Pica Pica on November 25, 2011, 05:23:00 PM

construction - possibly
communication - certainly
Illusion - really?

Kia Ora Pica,

What's reality ?

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Zenda on November 25, 2011, 05:27:08 PM
Kia Ora Pica,

What's reality ?

Metta Zenda

After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."
Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

Reality is the stuff that kicks and rebounds (and also I expanded further on my point, realising it a tad oblique.)

Quote from: Zenda on November 25, 2011, 05:27:08 PM
Kia Ora Pica,

What's reality ?

Metta Zenda

Anything that is not metaphysics !!!

Quote from: Jen61 on November 25, 2011, 05:44:33 PM

Anything that is not metaphysics !!!

Interesting fact about metaphysics, it does not mean 'beyond the physical' - that's a mistranslation. It means 'After physics', because in the original anthology of Aristotle the lectures that introduced the subject were the ones after the ones on physics.

Quote from: Zenda on November 25, 2011, 03:19:49 PM
Kia Ora,

Conspiracy theories are a way of giving ordinary people a narrative with which to question what they see around them. They make ones thoughts 'think', and for some this means thinking outside the square of ones neatly 'conditioned' comfort zone...

Happy Girl, regardless of the negative comments and the ones that are meant to ridicule you, you have achieved your goal, you have planted a seed and even if many dismiss the theory, they can't help but 'think' about it...

And do I believe the moon landing was a fraud ? I don't know and I don't care-it's all in the mind anyway...



"So they say!"

Metta Zenda

I do agree very much with the part about thinking outside one's comfort zone.
I even agree that it is possible that the lunar landing in fact never happened, with a very small chance.

While my counter-theory above was inspired by the xkcd comic, it was also to point out that there are an infinite number of other theories too that could explain it.
So the theory that the "moon landing never happened" theory was made up by the US government is possible, as I'm sure you'll agree.
And also the theory that the "the moon landing never happened theory was made up by the US government" theory was made up by the Chinese government.
And so on ad infinitum...

The thing is, while possible, they are unlikely.
As many others have mentioned, the never-happened theory has been quite thoroughly debunked.
Happy girl should try to explain the flaws in the arguments that others have pointed out, if she wishes to convince some of us, instead of just reiterating that nothing has been debunked.
Otherwise, in fact, she hasn't really planted any seed or anything like that that makes most of us doubt the moon landing yet...

PS I also agree that "I don't care" would be a good way to think about it, since in my opinion there isn't going to be any real consequence even if it never happened, contrary to what Happy girl suggested...

Quote from: apple pie on November 25, 2011, 05:52:01 PM

I do agree very much with the part about thinking outside one's comfort zone.

The reasonable, actual and tangible world seems the furthest from any of our comfort zones, seems the real challenging thoughts are the ones that explain specifically and without some overarching theory.

Kia Ora Pica Pica,

The perceived reality is illusory not in the sense that reality is a fantasy or unreal, but that our perceptions and preconditions mislead us to believe that we are separate from the elements that we are made of.

What appears as a world of apparently external phenomena, is the energy of the individual him or herself. There is nothing external or separate from the individual. Everything that manifests in the individual's field of experience is a continuum...

In reality, all phenomena are incomplete, impermanent and do no constitute a fixed entity


Kia Ora Jen,

Metaphysics is defined as the branch of philosophy that examines the true nature of reality, whether visible or invisible. Metaphysics includes the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, and, fact and value. Basically, metaphysics is the philosophical study of 'being and knowing'

A Zen Master once said
"What's going on outside, is indeed going on inside you. The trick is your mind, it makes you so confused that you would perceive what's going on, as outside you and hence, the thing we call world. But the reality is your mind is your world. The ego which created the separation makes you perceive the world as outside of you. It's an Inside World, Outside Reality"
"What you hear, you feel or see is all inside you, but your untamed mind makes it so real that it indeed happens outside you!"

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one !"

Albert Einstein


Metta Zenda

Quote from: apple pie on November 25, 2011, 05:52:01 PM

I do agree very much with the part about thinking outside one's comfort zone.
I even agree that it is possible that the lunar landing in fact never happened, with a very small chance.

While my counter-theory above was inspired by the xkcd comic, it was also to point out that there are an infinite number of other theories too that could explain it.
So the theory that the "moon landing never happened" theory was made up by the US government is possible, as I'm sure you'll agree.
And also the theory that the "the moon landing never happened theory was made up by the US government" theory was made up by the Chinese government.
And so on ad infinitum...

The thing is, while possible, they are unlikely.
As many others have mentioned, the never-happened theory has been quite thoroughly debunked.
Happy girl should try to explain the flaws in the arguments that others have pointed out, if she wishes to convince some of us, instead of just reiterating that nothing has been debunked.
Otherwise, in fact, she hasn't really planted any seed or anything like that that makes most of us doubt the moon landing yet...

PS I also agree that "I don't care" would be a good way to think about it, since in my opinion there isn't going to be any real consequence even if it never happened, contrary to what Happy girl suggested...

Kia Ora Apple,

Theory within theory within theory... I like it 

BTW Happy Girl, made other posters 'think' , regardless of the outcome of those thoughts...

Metta Zenda

Wisnewski, Gerhard. One small step? The great Moon hoax and the race to dominate earth from space.  Clairview Books, East Sussex (2007).

This is an extraordinary book.   Wisnewski, doesn't merely cast doubt on the moon landings.   He blows the whole fiction to smithereens.   Warning, read this book and you will never believe that man landed on the moon again.

" Is it possible that the famous American moon
landings were nothing but an illusion - a fabrication?
Could NASA have fooled the world by broadcasting simulations that had
been filmed for training purposes?

From the very first manned flight into orbit
right up to the present day there have been
serious anomalies in the official narrative of the conquest of space.
Bestselling author Gerhard Wisnewski dissects the history in minute detail
from the first Russian missions to the final American moon project of Apollo 17
- looking at films, photos, radio communications, personal statements and any other available material.
Using forensic methods of investigation, he pieces together a complex jigsaw depicting a disturbing
picture of falsifications, lies, fakery[and even murder] in the Cold War struggle for supremacy between
the Soviet Union and the USA.   
The evidence he presents casts serious doubts on the possibility of humans ever having walked
on the moon.


Wisnewski's research calls for a reassessment of the received wisdom that has entered the fabric
of our culture.   The true story of space exploration has a more sinister undertone, he argues.
Beneath the guise of civilian space travel the US military has been developing fearsome
new equipment and weapons to be secretly stationed in space with the aim of militarising
the orbit around earth.
The potential target: every human being on the planet."

"Profusely illustrated with over 200 photos and diagrams."


Another book that I recommend is:

Bennet, Mary; Percy, David S. : Dark Moon - Apollo and the Whistle Blowers, London, 1999, 2002.

OK Zenda,

Reality is anything but phylospphy or religion

You have to be kidding me !

and the illuminati are taking over, the 12th planet is going to wipe us out, ebola monkeys are going to infect us all, fema camps are going to be bases for the chinese army and don't forget that the aliens from some galaxy or anouther are going to teleport all the good people to utopia just as soon as all these other things happen.......


rolls eyes...
I know the real deal....we are just a lab experiment for a bunch of white lab rats.
sheesh doesn't anyone know this already!!!!??!?!